Questions on HH novel Nemesis *spoilers* - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
Black Library Fiction Here is where you can discuss your favourite Black Library publications and graphic novels. If it's published by Black Library it goes here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-02-10, 03:21 AM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
AK74Bob's Avatar
AK74Bob's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: FL, USA
Posts: 184
Reputation: 1
Icon Questions on HH novel Nemesis *spoilers*

Beware there will be major *spoilers* here. Brothers (and Sisters), I have some questions regarding the HH novel Nemesis. Question #1 Did Eristede Kell die? The book seemed to imply that he was crashing his vessel into Horus's flagship, but he was not mentioned by Horus and Erebus at the end of the book. Question #2 Does anyone have a definitive answer for what "Spear" was? I'm guessing he was a human that was experimented on and then blended with a daemon by Erebus. The book did talk a little bit about the "black pariah" project, but it was short in explanation. Question #3 Did Spear have the ability to teleport? Because that's how I assumed he got into the guys aircar to kill him and later was able to kill the psyker Perrig. And lastly how would you all rate the book overall? I thought it was very good, probably as good as the first 3 HH novels anyway.

"Treat your men as you would your own beloved sons, and they will follow you into the deepest valley". - Sun Tzu

"My rule is: If you meet the weakest vessel, attack; if it is a vessel equal to yours, attack; and if it is stronger than yours, also attack..." - Admiral Stepan O. Makarov

"A brave man may fall, but he cannot yield" - Roman proverb
AK74Bob is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-02-10, 08:45 AM
Chaos God of Old Night
 
Lord of the Night's Avatar
Lord of the Night's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Eternal Night
Posts: 5,028
Reputation: 48
Default

Ill explain.

1. Yes he died, and the reason they didn't mention him is because they don't know who he was.

2. Spear was a Pariah, who was experimented on by the Clade Culexes and turned into the Black Pariah. Then Erebus found him and gave him the Daemon to wear as a second-skin.

3. No he was just very fast and agile.

I think Nemesis is a very good book, its currently among my top 3 Heresy books, with A Thousand Sons and Fulgrim. And Spear is one of my favourite 30k/40k monsters, he is incredibly imaginative and well-written.



https://www.heresy-online.net/forums...red-souls.html - The Kabal of Shattered Souls Project Log
http://www.talkwargaming.com/search/...Book%20Reviews - Check out Talk Wargaming for reviews by Lord of the Night.
Lord of the Night is offline  
post #3 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-02-10, 11:26 AM
Senior Member
 
increaso's Avatar
increaso's Flag is: England
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 408
Reputation: 1
Default

Whilst it seems obvious that Kell did die at the end of the book I personally thought his end was less than clear.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that he survived, but even the way in which he died is vague. Personally I thought that he just went 'splat' against Horus' ships, but others seem to think the guns got him.
increaso is offline  
 
post #4 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-02-10, 04:54 PM
The Emperor Protects
 
Angel of Blood's Avatar
Angel of Blood's Flag is: Wales
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,262
Reputation: 41
Default

Kell died, although it doesnt explicitly state it, its fairly certain. I think the guns got him, his ship was already getting hit and wouldnt have lasted much longer. It's one of the things i didnt like about the book. it just seemed so pointless and futile, why didn't he just wait out on the planet and try and shoot Horus.

Spears origin has been explained above pretty well, though its not clear whether the assassins made him into a black pariah or whether he was already somewhat different to the standard pariah and they brought it out more.

Nemesis for a filler book was for me very good, although it could have easily been told in the 40k setting aswell i think, it didn't show us anything more about the heresy itself. But yeah i enjoyed it, especially the way in which Spear finally bought it
Angel of Blood is offline  
post #5 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-02-10, 05:43 PM
Chaos God of Old Night
 
Lord of the Night's Avatar
Lord of the Night's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Eternal Night
Posts: 5,028
Reputation: 48
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel of Blood View Post
Kell died, although it doesnt explicitly state it, its fairly certain. I think the guns got him, his ship was already getting hit and wouldnt have lasted much longer. It's one of the things i didnt like about the book. it just seemed so pointless and futile, why didn't he just wait out on the planet and try and shoot Horus.

Spears origin has been explained above pretty well, though its not clear whether the assassins made him into a black pariah or whether he was already somewhat different to the standard pariah and they brought it out more.

Nemesis for a filler book was for me very good, although it could have easily been told in the 40k setting aswell i think, it didn't show us anything more about the heresy itself. But yeah i enjoyed it, especially the way in which Spear finally bought it.
Because Horus was never going to be on Dagonet.

The answer to that is pretty much obvious. Spear was made into that because no other Black Pariahs have emerged since then, and the why is clear too, because they could, why does anyone experiment on anything, because they can and the results could be good. They made Spear what he is because they wanted more power.



https://www.heresy-online.net/forums...red-souls.html - The Kabal of Shattered Souls Project Log
http://www.talkwargaming.com/search/...Book%20Reviews - Check out Talk Wargaming for reviews by Lord of the Night.
Lord of the Night is offline  
post #6 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-02-10, 06:39 PM
The Emperor Protects
 
Angel of Blood's Avatar
Angel of Blood's Flag is: Wales
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,262
Reputation: 41
Default

Never? apart from the bit right at end when he's on it right? It's not obvious though, it was clearly a bad idea and the temple has since never wanted to atempt it again. But he could have easily been a freak of nature, just like theres not been another being like the Emperor, a one off if you will. You can't know for sure which it is

Last edited by Angel of Blood; 10-02-10 at 06:41 PM.
Angel of Blood is offline  
post #7 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-02-10, 09:17 PM
Chaos God of Old Night
 
Lord of the Night's Avatar
Lord of the Night's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Eternal Night
Posts: 5,028
Reputation: 48
Default

He only landed at the end to oversee the sacrifices, and that was caused by Sedirae's assassination. If that hadn't happened then he would never even have come.

The Emperor was planned though, by the ancient Terran shamans who committed ritual-suicide and reincarnated as him, a single being. Spear is a lab experiment, the Culexes Master admits it at the end, or at least implies it.



https://www.heresy-online.net/forums...red-souls.html - The Kabal of Shattered Souls Project Log
http://www.talkwargaming.com/search/...Book%20Reviews - Check out Talk Wargaming for reviews by Lord of the Night.
Lord of the Night is offline  
post #8 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-02-10, 09:34 PM
Dazed and confused.
 
Khorne's Fist's Avatar
Khorne's Fist's Flag is: Ireland
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Posts: 8,496
Reputation: 105
Default

I really don't think Spear was a pariah. When he is dicovered on a black ship and kills a psyker, Erebus assumes that is what he is. If he was though, why was he affected by Iota when she turned off her damper, or how did the demon skin survive in the material realm whilst bonded to a pariah? Also, before Spear kills Perrig, she is still able to see into his mind with her powers, and even tries to send a psychic summons to Hyssos.

Whilst she thinks he's a black pariah, if he was none of this could have been possible, her mind would have been crushed and her powers scoured from her the second he appeared.

Also, if he was a pariah, just getting him into the presence of the most powerful mortal psyker ever surely wouldn't have been that much a danger to the Emperor. A person of his strength should easily deal with a pariah if even 95% of his power was supressed.

In my opinion, he is some sort of psychic mirror/amplifier. I felt this was implied in the novel by the fact that the plan was to get Spear close to the Emperor, and use his own reflected and amplified powers to kill him.

Last edited by Khorne's Fist; 10-02-10 at 09:37 PM.
Khorne's Fist is offline  
post #9 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-02-10, 09:53 PM
The Emperor Protects
 
Angel of Blood's Avatar
Angel of Blood's Flag is: Wales
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,262
Reputation: 41
Default

Where have you got that ofrom?? It never says Horus had no intention of landing on the planet. Horus was going to land on the planet, he simply sent Sedirea first to see if it was safe, and even then, Kell still could have waited to see if Horus came down, which he did, rather then going on a pointless suicide run.

And exactly its still completely vague as to how spear came about, its not definite. And even if the Emperor was the result of the shamans its still a one off event, it wont happen again, just like Spear could have potentially been a one off event
Angel of Blood is offline  
post #10 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-02-10, 10:35 PM
Chaos God of Old Night
 
Lord of the Night's Avatar
Lord of the Night's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Eternal Night
Posts: 5,028
Reputation: 48
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel of Blood View Post
Where have you got that ofrom?? It never says Horus had no intention of landing on the planet. Horus was going to land on the planet, he simply sent Sedirea first to see if it was safe, and even then, Kell still could have waited to see if Horus came down, which he did, rather then going on a pointless suicide run.

And exactly its still completely vague as to how spear came about, its not definite. And even if the Emperor was the result of the shamans its still a one off event, it wont happen again, just like Spear could have potentially been a one off event.
Horus would never have come to Dagonet if the Assassins hadn't started an open rebellion, and then he sent Sedirae down because he was too busy to go, knowing that the worthless masses of the planet wouldn't be able to tell the difference between Sedirae and himself.

Spear was definitely a one-off event because it is implied in the novel that he was created by the Culexes Clade, the same way Iota was, just with a different process and goal.



https://www.heresy-online.net/forums...red-souls.html - The Kabal of Shattered Souls Project Log
http://www.talkwargaming.com/search/...Book%20Reviews - Check out Talk Wargaming for reviews by Lord of the Night.
Lord of the Night is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Fiction, Art and Roleplay Game Discussion > Black Library Fiction

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome