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post #41 of 49 (permalink) Old 08-28-10, 04:47 PM Thread Starter
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Good point cote.

But can anyone give me some written facts from where all this fence sitting came from? or is it just someone came up with an idea one day and it escalated?

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post #42 of 49 (permalink) Old 08-28-10, 05:04 PM
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Read Angels of Darkness, its a must to understanding this discussion. Also if you discuss things from Fallen Angels and Lion in general there is this other perspective to all things and it comes from Astelan. Its the best book about Dark Angels and in overall one of best BL has released.

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post #43 of 49 (permalink) Old 08-28-10, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
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I have read it, dunno how Astelan could say the lion was a fence sitter since he was sent back to caliban 15 years after lion was found and had no word from him till the heresy was over and jonson returned.

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post #44 of 49 (permalink) Old 08-28-10, 06:16 PM
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We have:

-Primarchs rebelling
-Legions turning to chaos
-Calibanites rebelling
-The Lion being much more separate from his legion than the other primarchs are from theirs
- The Lion giving weapons to Perturabo and striking Russ

There is quite a bit of scope for the Lion to be seen as a douche, a fence sitter or a loyalist with issues in the setting we are given.

I would not be surprised if the Lion goes back to Caliban thinking it has turned to chaos and the Calibanites have heard of the heresy and think the Lion has or is going to turn and they have a big fight. Not sure where the fallen and 'chaosy' Luthur fit into that, but i would not at all be surprised.
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post #45 of 49 (permalink) Old 08-30-10, 03:48 PM
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The Lion punching Russ thing is a wild wild connection, it was a fair hit and they in the end became closer than ever and were seen as some of the closest friends amongst the Primarchs.

I still find the Peturabo thing baffling tbh. He had no idea he was a traitor at this point, it was just a cruel twist considering all the effort he put in to stop Horus from gaining the weapons and gave them to Pertuabo to gain his vote for when he bid to become the next warmaster.

Just the very way the Lion speaks, how he acts and what he thinks throughout the two Dak Angel HH books make me certain he is a loyalist. Just got to wait for the HH books to prove me right now
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post #46 of 49 (permalink) Old 08-30-10, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel of Blood View Post
Just got to wait for the HH books to prove me right now
I doubt the HH series will ever prove his loyalties, it will probably leave it open to speculation. The Lion being some form of traitor or 'fence-sitter' is one of the most debated and common theories regarding the Primarchs.

GW/BL don't usually like to kill such heated debates/theories. I wouldn't be suprised (in fact I find it quite likely) if after the HH series we end up with more mysteries and speculation created than solved, which to me is a good thing.



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I do love how we don't even need CotE to comment anymore, chances are he has already said something intelligent before that can be re-applied to the current situation.
Heresy's Background FAQ. (Fluff Project)
CotE Reviews: Prospero Burns (HH Review), Age of Darkness (HH Review).
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post #47 of 49 (permalink) Old 08-30-10, 07:19 PM
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Ok, this is old cannon, but is the story that the Lion, and Russ combine their fleets, and head off to Terra, but Russ wants to stay and protect the forgeworlds (thus earning him their respect and naming a tank after him), and the Lion wants to rush off to terra? seems silly for a fence sitter to speed there, considering he would want to see who was defiantly winning before dedicating his forces if he was a fence sitter.

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They are going to be called in to righteously kick the shit out of deamons and heretics before fucking off back to Titan for tea and crumpets, leaving the chaos gods thinking "I fucking hate those guys"
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post #48 of 49 (permalink) Old 08-30-10, 07:32 PM
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Well thats what i think aswell, plus it added to the brotherhood that the Wolf and the Lion shared, side by side to break the siege and thus save the Imperium. But others are of the opinion that the Lion wanted to be there so he could commit his force to whoever it appears was winning. Although i still think thats a bit risky as adding his forces wouldn't gurantee victory to whoever he joined and the Lion isn't the type to make rash decisions like that. It would be much more safe for a fence sitter to simply sit back and 'defend' Imperial worlds, if Horus won he could then attack those worlds and link up with the traitor forces, if Horus lost, well he continues to defend those worlds and then link up with other Imperial forces
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post #49 of 49 (permalink) Old 08-30-10, 07:46 PM
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Just to clarify, i am not suggesting that the relationship between Russ and the Lion indicated that the Lion was a loyalist or traitor.

What i am saying is that a person on Caliban may be given the following information:

- Some legions are turning against the Emp
- The Lion gave munitions to one of those legions
- The Lion struck a loyalist primarch

That same person may perceive the Lion as being a traitor to Caliban (on the basis of the events in the 2 HH Dark Angel books) , then a traitor to the Emperor, basically a side hopper looking for the best option.
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