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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-26-07, 01:13 AM Thread Starter
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Default Questions on "Descent of Angels" book

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My question is what the heck did the Lion have against Zahariel??? The only thing I can think of is that he knew about what happend on the flight deck and was dissappointed that Zahariel didnt tell him... but how did he know and why did it piss him off???? Insanely stumped...



"The warrior who acts out of honor cannot fail. His honour is duty itself. Even his death - if it is honourable - is a reward and can be no failure, for it has come through duty. Seek honour as you act, therefore, and you will know no fear."

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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-26-07, 05:43 AM
 
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EL'johnson was paranoid from having lived in the forest for so long, the more he studied liturature, the more he learned about the imperium and about the galaxy and chaos the more he thought it threatened the existance of caliban and the other dark angels who were from caliban. after the lion sent zahariel and the rest back to caliban he did it to ensuree that everything that was the order was maintained. the lion dint trust the terran dark angels so to keep his eye on them at all time he led them into battle and during the crusade he commanded mostly dark angels from earth. When the lion was fired apon by luther it was because luther dint know if the lion had sided with chaos or the imperium, luther though the lion was bad, and he thought that because of what hapened on the ship wit hthe bomb. The lion wanted luther to keep the idea of caliban alive, but luther saw it as leaving him behind, and that if the lion could let go of his closest brother then there was no doubt he could let go of his father. now this is mostly specualtion nothing is written as fact but i hope it helps, the lion had nothing agaisnt zahariel or anyone, he was just paranoid, really badly, thats whats happens when you grow up in th woods like that
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-26-07, 02:51 PM Thread Starter
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Not to be mean ArcAngels but thats not anything close to what came out of the end of the book..



"The warrior who acts out of honor cannot fail. His honour is duty itself. Even his death - if it is honourable - is a reward and can be no failure, for it has come through duty. Seek honour as you act, therefore, and you will know no fear."

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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-26-07, 03:02 PM
 
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I think that the book as whole focus's too much on pre heresy and not on the great crusade or heresy so for me it was a big let down
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-26-07, 03:25 PM
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To me it seemed like the first part of a two parter. Stuff happened a lot but there was very little explanation of what that stuff was.


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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-26-07, 05:59 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah it did seem very much a two parter but I was just very confused at why El'Johnson came off as angry at Zahariel at the end and switched from favoring Zahariel to favoring Nemiel.

One moment he is his brother of sorts the next hes giving him dirty looks and putting Nemiel in his place in his command squad.

El'Johnson would have to know what happend on the flight deck but the question is how did he find out and why did he take it out on Zahariel rather then asking/confronting him about it. If he did know what happend then he should well have known that sending Luthor back to Calidan was going to piss him off even more. If he didnt then why the poor treatment of Zahariel..

One other option that I can think of is that El'Johnson felt betrayed by Zahariel as he either hates psychers as ArcAngels was saying before OR that Zahariel was able to use psychic powers to defeat the Calabanite Lion and that betrayed that special brotherhood they had. What do yall think???



"The warrior who acts out of honor cannot fail. His honour is duty itself. Even his death - if it is honourable - is a reward and can be no failure, for it has come through duty. Seek honour as you act, therefore, and you will know no fear."

- Roboute Guilliman
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-26-07, 06:00 PM
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Think this should of been made in the Book discussion forum. To add to the point he sent him back to Caliban because he didn't want to be reminded of his past he wanted to look ahead which is why he sent Zach who is the only other to of slayed a calbinate lion and luthor who was his "father" and best friend since he came to the planet.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-27-07, 04:13 AM
 
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No I think your wrong, no offence but I have a psychology degree, and upon looking at someone like the lion he was paranoid. if you read anything on the great crusade youl know the emperor ordered all xenos occupied planets to be cleansed and all chaos planets to be taken out by virus bombing, its all written in the collected visions of the horus heresy.

Now the lion never knew of chaos, but after the defeat of the lupus knights he took there collected knowledge and his discoveries about the beasts that dwelled in the forest and the curruption the had taken root into the planet could never be lifted. he knew that everything he had fought and killed for the btter of his people could be conjured up by spells and witchcraft and easily brought back into our universe

Like do you know how lucky the lion was the his crusade agaisnt the beats was over by the time the emperor arrived because the planet would have been terminated, and the lion never wanted that, so when he took his mantle as primarch he learned of what was to be done to planets touched by the curruption of chaos and he was paranoid thst caliban could be threatened. he sent back luther and his most trusted men to make sure caliban was safe, but the planet was a chaos sanctuary for so long that the dark forces that resided there could never go, and that pretty much why the lion ordered the destruction of his homeworld, because nobody but him could make that descion, look at the gfacts its true, he was paranoid theres no doubt to that

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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-27-07, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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So he did have something against Zahariel since he was a psycher and was paranoid about them??

Yeah I was reading somewhere else about people who read Angels of Darkness and said that combined with this book it puts it into a whole new light about the Lions paranoidness. I dont think the Emporer would have bombed the planet as the only reason he went there when he did was because of him sensing El Johnsons presence. Im sure that knowing the Emporer he would have done everything in his power to keep his son happy and would have helped him purge the planet had he arrived earlier and given the psychic power of the Emporer he would have fully purged the planet with a release of but a fraction of his power.

I have read the Collected Visions so I know how things worked with him and I believe he would go to great lengths to keep his children primarchs happy.

But Im still confused on the Zaharial issue. I was told that per the Angels of Darkness book Luthor did tell Johnson about what had happened on the flight deck. This of course makes sense of why he would hate Zahariel and Luthor but if he knew that there were doubts about them why send them back to where they could corrupt future recruits?? If he had no doubts about them why not tell them why he's sending them back and why the nasty looks at Zahariel??



"The warrior who acts out of honor cannot fail. His honour is duty itself. Even his death - if it is honourable - is a reward and can be no failure, for it has come through duty. Seek honour as you act, therefore, and you will know no fear."

- Roboute Guilliman
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 11-27-07, 03:00 PM
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One of the things that comes across in the other books, particularly the ones on the Lundar wolves, is that the emperor is trying to spread a secular society and deny the existance of gods, chaos and so on. When characters come across chaos they are always a bit confused by it. This has always seemed a bit odd to me, since the Emperor certainly was aware of chaos at this time.

Johnson, having read a the wolf guys' books and fought the great beasts (and maybe met with the watchers and stuff - as Zahariel had) would have known straight off that quite a lot of what the emperor and his spokesmen were saying wasn't true. Tricky situation. Then they meet a daemon cult with all kinds of odd warp craziness going on. The experiences of the guys from Caliban and the guys who went and fought the daemon cult don't match with what the emperor is saying, and that's a problem for Johnson.


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