Dark Imperium - Guy Haley - Page 7 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #61 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-09-17, 09:03 PM
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It's just especially obvious in Space Marine books. We're getting battles just because the book should have fighting in it, rather than because they advance the plot or affect the people involved in a meaningful way... Well, they might, but we never get to KNOW the people so what's the point.

The problem with BL is that they don't seem to realize that books should be about CHARACTERS. People, not just fighting. You'd think it would be obvious with long-running series like Cain and Gotrek & Felix... Much like those, the good Marine books manage to get plot advancement, character interaction and/or development in during the fight scenes. Obvious example from James Swallow's Blood Angel books, Dante and Gabriel Seth fighting side by side.

Mediocre ones - and I'm counting Dark Imperium among those - only manage it in between. Guy Haley makes a brave attempt at it, but he's stuck with an ensemble cast that needs screen time on everyone. The apparently mandatory number of battle scenes largely turns into meaningless interpunction that can be skipped without missing anything. The book is (IMO) at it's best during the character focus scenes - Calgar's musings, a squad of Primaris marines just chillaxing and highlighting the marines of various legions coming together, Guilliman's interactions with the Cawl Inferior, Typhus telling Mortarion what's what.

Ask not the Eldar a question, for they will give you three answers; all of which are true and horrifying to know.
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post #62 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-09-17, 09:23 PM
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@Shandathe, couldn't agree more on the importance of characters and ongoing character development to bring about fan attachment to the books.
I think they have realised this to a degree with the new inquisitor covenant storyline and abd's black legion series or the shadowsword/baneblade books.
But they seem convinced that the majority of BL readers want plenty of lengthy battle scenes with little character development. This or simply it's just easier to produce vast amounts of this type of story. BL have a fairly relentless release schedule and that's never a good thing for quality.
There have also been some amazing stand alone books of recent which haven't focused on space marines and explosions. Jain Zar, Lorgar and the vaults of terra have been, I think, amazing.
I found Dark Imperium so disappointing as it seemed a throw back to poorer rushed works with bland uninteresting characters. Guy is a great author so I will let this one slide!
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post #63 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-10-17, 08:34 AM
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My first books were Eisenhorn/ravenor, Gaunt and Cain.... all non marine ones, with characters I really loved, they had substance! From Jurgen with his endless cups of recaf for cain, to try again bragg who i literally shed a tear for!


The Heresy books have been good, some great ones, but most are good. Ive only read the iron warriors/ultramarines omnibus, and the armageddonADB 40k marine books because i keep hearing about the lack of character in a lot of the marine focussed books. Guy Haley isn't the best i must say, but he seems to have a good contact at GW and they keep selecting him to do more writing.


If McNeil had done some of these newer books I can see there would be a slightly different tone to the conversations on here and other forums.
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post #64 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-10-17, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Dextus View Post
If McNeil had done some of these newer books I can see there would be a slightly different tone to the conversations on here and other forums.
McNeill is as hit-and-miss as Hayley. Some fantastic books, like A Thousand Sons and the Priests of Mars series, as well as dross like The Outcast Dead and the Uriel Ventris books.
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post #65 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-10-17, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
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The longer I read BL I realise I like marines in small doses as super heros who appear (briefly) to save the day or in the case of chaos marines ruin someone's day. But can't have a whole book focused on them.
I totally agree with you. It's a huge difference when space marines are in IG or Inquisitor novel. Good example is Vaults of Terra. Scenes with Custodes are majestic. I recently noticed that I am quite bored by regular SM action and I definitely not read that many books.
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post #66 of 66 (permalink) Old 08-10-17, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
McNeill is as hit-and-miss as Hayley. Some fantastic books, like A Thousand Sons and the Priests of Mars series, as well as dross like The Outcast Dead and the Uriel Ventris books.
I guess this sort of prooves you cant please everyone - i really liked the Ventris ones (but mainly because he was a goddam ass for most of it)

Thousand sons was pretty good IMO, but not read the Mars ones.
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