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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-18-15, 03:23 PM Thread Starter
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Default Fear to Tread Discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobss View Post
If there are enough Fear to Tread supporters on this board I'd be happy to host a structured debate. It is definitely one of the most divisive novels of the Horus Heresy, especially now the Prospero Burns controversy has died down.
Since it's trying to take over The Wolf King thread and bobss has already thrown the gauntlet down, let's start a dedicated, comprehensive debate about the novel. There appear to be some who like it, a lot who don't, but both parties seem prepared to argue it. Now before anyone yells about kettles and pots, I'm well aware that I am one of Swallows biggest negative critics and have spoken quite bluntly and comically(in my head) about what I think of the novel and it's author. But let's try to keep this clear, concise, without generic unsupported 'It's just shit' comments.

Reasons you like it, and why.

Reasons you don't, and why.

What you thought could have been better?

Thoughts on the characters, and positives and negatives regarding them.

How you think it could have/should have been done.

Any other pertinent points about the novel.
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-18-15, 03:45 PM
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Hated the book, reasons, it seemed like an overly complicated plot to turn the angels by using their red thirst, when it would have been better to have a stand up row. Horus showing up in the hut at the start just by magic was ridiculous, how sang got his legs broken with a lash of a whip was told a lot better in visions of heresy when ka banda danced on his ass, the first edition anyway have not seen the latest. About a million times in the novel we are told "one more push and the angels will break" and this happens a lot. Now I'm ranting from memory so please hold off on nerd rage.

The plot was a joke, it should have been a straight up ambush with a" join me luke and together we can do great things " attempt to corrupt the B.A. Trying to corrupt with the red thirst just became laboured, the whole demon thing at the end was just like a tangent to nowhere and felt like filler. Now I'm working nights for the next three nights so if any rage is directed my way I probably wont be replying before monday. Hugs and kisses Oldman

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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-18-15, 04:28 PM
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The two greater daemons sitting around drinking beer, playing poker and watching football is the single stupidest scene in the history of Games Workshop fiction.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-18-15, 06:21 PM
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I actually liked the book quite a bit. It isn't the strongest of the HH but its a strong read altogether while flawed. The Red Angel story was interesting and the little mind-games as to who it will be out of the "new" characters kept me interested. Really enjoyed the scenes with Sanguinius and Horus, building their friendship made the impact of the betrayal all the sweeter; in particular how Horus is the only one San trusted with the knowledge of the red thirst. I also thought that the portray of chaos was great, the fact it worked like a force of nature half the time was chilling. Scenes like where the planet was split reinforced the idea that to chaos the war is more like a Vietnam or Korea where the scale is relatively small (To chaos's immense power) but they are treading carefully.

What I didn't like was how the Blood Angels lacked an Identity compared to all the other legions. They felt too generic and besides the blood drinking oath and the obvious red thirst didn't have anything that set them apart from the rest. If you look at a legion like the wolves, Thousand sons, Emperors Children, IW or most of the others they have their own methodology's and strategies along with a distinct internal culture (Scars brotherhoods, Cults of the TS, Stupid amount of company's UM or the whole rout business). Otherwise some of the scenes of the books where a little lazy in writing, ether events just happened with no "flair" to them and where a little too much of a tell what happened.

Other sub-plots like the Wolves and the remembrancer where okay at best but kinda forgettable in the long run.

Would have mainly liked the culture side to be improved, give the Angels some real identity, but otherwise just tighter writing and some chopping off/ reworking off the dull side plots would have been nice. In the scheme of the heresy I have always seen it as a 6/10.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-18-15, 07:41 PM
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This is it, lads. The thread where angels fear to tread. May our discussion be honoured by future Heretics for generations to come.

I purged my Black Library bookshelf a few years ago, so naturally I don't have a copy of Fear to Tread, but I'm more than happy to support my points with textual examples (via torrent) if I'm asked to elaborate on my criticisms. As I'm moving into university accommodation this weekend I canít jump straight into the discussion, but I'm absolutely gagging to get to grips with this novel in proper detail. I donít think we've had a thorough novel discussion for a while, and with Fear to Tread constantly raising its head in our community this is a fantastic opportunity for a good literary brawl.

I'll make sure to get a strong post up in the next few days and I encourage others to use AOB's guideline in the OP for at least a semblance of balanced criticism Ė after all, there's a lot to say about this novel, some good; but mostly bad.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-18-15, 08:17 PM
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The entire setting had/has an enormous potential and was/is hard to screw up, in my opinion James did not get enough out of the given setting, the BA came across as angry UM's with a red power armor.
I can only imagine what say ADB of wright would have done with it, in all honesty even Graham, the short description of BA's in vengeful spirit was interesting.
I was also biased after disastrous BA books from James.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-18-15, 10:19 PM
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It was a perfunctory novel. I neither loved it nor hated it. It fullfilled the brief in the most basic of ways. Also, there simply wasn't enough Kharn in it.
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-19-15, 02:21 AM
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I liked it. I remember first cracking it open and grinning like a fool during the first chapter..." 'We are the Anvil,' Horus repeated, pointing with his sword. 'Now behold the hammer' " Then the fury from the heavens was unleashed & the Blood Angels introduced themselves proper. I guess it's just that which has stuck with me. The visuals that are depicted. I still look back to when the angels arrive in the sector and are welcomed full blown by a planets transformation...thought that was great. I loved Kyriss...thought his lines were fantastic...even better in the Audio Book. It had the makings of a stand alone sci fi horror movie to me. Just something to be...creeped out by...something to make you proceed cautiously as the plot unfolded. It had the right dash of eeriness and foreboding.

My only complaint was the Red Angel part. Only because i have no clue what role he is to play in the future. Just...kinda built him up...then peaced out for whatever reason.

It's a solid entry and anyone who says otherwise is a filthy ephemeral....or well, just has like...a different opinion, man.
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-19-15, 03:56 AM
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It was like a Southern Style Iced Tea without sugar.
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-19-15, 08:22 AM
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Meh. Just meh.

I had a hard time to get to the end of the book. There were some very cool moment, but it never got really memorable in the end.

Don't shoot me, heretic ! I speak High Gothick and english isn't my first language !

Check out my space marine story if you dare :

https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...d.php?t=187466
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