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post #51 of 69 (permalink) Old 09-30-15, 10:51 PM
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I'm going to keep quoting this in other threads till those of you that somehow enjoyed this novel, can explain this absurd plot hole.

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What a truly fucking awful abortion of a novel that was. I 'acquired' it to finally read as a break between real novels and holy shit, I'm about as glad I read it, as I was watching the latest Fantastic Four film. Sometimes you just need to experience how awful something is, but not in a good way like Sharknado. There is not one redeeming feature in the entire novel for me I'm afraid. At least in say, Vulkan Lives (and holy shit, didn't they just abuse the fuck out of that line), I sort of liked Curze torturing Vulkan over and over. That is until it was revealed he's a perpetual, then I kind of lost interest. But god, that was painful to read.

Other have nailed most of the bad points already, maybe when I regain my motivation for life, I'll come back and list more, but for now...

Kaspian Hecht...


A rather large, and to me, glaring error


The Reapers Shroud
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post #52 of 69 (permalink) Old 09-30-15, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Angel of Blood View Post
I'm going to keep quoting this in other threads till those of you that somehow enjoyed this novel, can explain this absurd plot hole.
Brother Blood, let me respond to your points.

1. I don't think anyone was fooled by this. But it didn't detract from the story at all. In fact, I don't think the readers were supposed to be fooled. An Ultramarine called Antellus once told me that the technical term is Dramatic Irony. It's when the audience knows something the characters do not. It is supposed to create drama as we, the audience, wait to discover when and how the characters will discover what we already know. I enjoyed this term and wondered for a moment if it was dramatic irony that I knew that I was going to eat his face whilst he didn't.

2. The second of the mentioned occurances was indeed stupid. But I put this down to the idiocy of the Dinosaurmarines and NumaNuma (or whatever his name is). A more vexing moment for me was how a certain 'special guest' was depicted. He seemed rather evil, which is perhaps understandable given all that has happened. But the last time we saw him, he was still a pretty cool guy. The transition was jarring for me.

3. This is not even a valid point. Something 'seemed' like something else in your mind and that has made you angry. The thought didn't even cross my mind. It's just a normal battlebarge.


Quote:
It seemed to almost have been described as...
So it 'seemed'- implying that it wasn't actually described as such, but in your head you formed the image.
to 'almost'- so not even fully 'seemed', but perhaps 70% 'seemed'.

So you are angry because you formed an image in your head based on a description which you admit was probably not even related to the image you formed. And this is Nick Kyme's fault, how?
The nails are biting hard into my skull over this one.
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post #53 of 69 (permalink) Old 09-30-15, 11:27 PM
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2. The second of the mentioned occurances was indeed stupid. But I put this down to the idiocy of the Dinosaurmarines and NumaNuma (or whatever his name is).
Put it down to the idiocy of the characters? No. It just doesn't work, it's a massive plot hole that Kyme completely fucked up.


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3. This is not even a valid point. Something 'seemed' like something else in your mind and that has made you angry. The thought didn't even cross my mind. It's just a normal battlebarge.


So it 'seemed'- implying that it wasn't actually described as such, but in your head you formed the image.
to 'almost'- so not even fully 'seemed', but perhaps 70% 'seemed'.

So you are angry because you formed an image in your head based on a description which you admit was probably not even related to the image you formed. And this is Nick Kyme's fault, how?
The nails are biting hard into my skull over this one.
Ok, so just ignore all my points about it. Nor did I once say it made me angry. But let's face the facts. It's trident shaped, described as being larger than a Gloriana ship, which are the flagships of primarchs. The only ship we know of, larger than the Gloriana class is the Furious Abyss class of ship, which are incidentally trident shaped. It was most certainly not 'just a normal battle barge'.

There were only three of that class made. Two are still kicking, the other was destroyed much further away from where they were.
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post #54 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-01-15, 04:48 AM Thread Starter
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Seen some accounts stating that the Ruinstorm blocked half of the galaxy, not just the 500 worlds. Clearly its grown over time, perhaps the dark gods stirred it up even further.


http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Astronomican
Following the Battle of Calth, Erebus of the traitorous Word Bearers Legion, had managed to complete a blasphemous ritual on Calth's surface, which summoned a Ruinstorm to the galaxy's Eastern Fringe -- a monstrous Warp Storm larger and more destructive than anything space-faring humanity had witnessed since the days of the Age of Strife. It would split the void asunder, dividing the galaxy in two and rendering vast tracts of the Imperium impassable for centuries.
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post #55 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-01-15, 07:31 AM
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I don't especially care about plot daftness unless it's absurd, and the second dive into the storm with the bad guys following them perfectly again does kinda edge that way. Getting hung up on plot elements is often a sign of bad criticism tbh, but there's def some questionable choices made in this book where the plot is concerned.

However, the book's bad (to me) because the writing is uninspired and terribly workmanlike. Like, barely-has-the-talent-to-even-be-workmanlike. And it's actually one of the better Kyme attempts at interesting prose. His stuff is turgid building blocks linked by one metaphor played to death as if he's sitting with a thesaurus, a couple of repeated descriptive phrases that don't justify the repetition, and then some barely disguised references to actual literary work turn up either as a character or a whole bloody plot.
It's not a fricking homage or clever nod to name a character in your book Circe when you're just doing a bad version of the Odyssey, it's bluntly obnoxious.

At least he didn't do a McNeil and actually have someone turn and directly tell the reader what one of the references was.
"So you see Numenon, I'm from the planet of Prospero, and by an amazing coincidence, I'm now going to act exactly like the character called Prospero in this book by this dramaturge called Will Shakspur, have you read it? Allow me to tell you the plot, you should probably check out this other book called the Odyssey while you're at it mate."
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post #56 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-01-15, 08:10 AM
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Seen some accounts stating that the Ruinstorm blocked half of the galaxy, not just the 500 worlds. Clearly its grown over time, perhaps the dark gods stirred it up even further.


http://warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Astronomican
Following the Battle of Calth, Erebus of the traitorous Word Bearers Legion, had managed to complete a blasphemous ritual on Calth's surface, which summoned a Ruinstorm to the galaxy's Eastern Fringe -- a monstrous Warp Storm larger and more destructive than anything space-faring humanity had witnessed since the days of the Age of Strife. It would split the void asunder, dividing the galaxy in two and rendering vast tracts of the Imperium impassable for centuries.
Problem with that wiki is it never says where the passages are sourced from. And from every Heresy novel i've read so far, it's said nothing more than the Ultramar system.
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post #57 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-01-15, 10:28 AM Thread Starter
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Mind you, the Ultramar system itself only have the 8 or so worlds from curren days. Not the 500 worlds of the Great Crusade era that Imperium Secundus encompassed.
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post #58 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-01-15, 12:28 PM
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Why we even discuss this heresy guys? Deathfire in company with the Outcast dead should be put into the darkest abyss and forgotten for all times.

AND if that's a second book in Vulkan HH trilogy - I DREAD TO THINK what would be depicted in the last book. Vulkan shooting rainbows from his a... would be a normal event comparing to what we get upon release.
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post #59 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-01-15, 08:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel of Blood View Post




Ok, so just ignore all my points about it. Nor did I once say it made me angry. But let's face the facts. It's trident shaped, described as being larger than a Gloriana ship, which are the flagships of primarchs. The only ship we know of, larger than the Gloriana class is the Furious Abyss class of ship, which are incidentally trident shaped. It was most certainly not 'just a normal battle barge'.

There were only three of that class made. Two are still kicking, the other was destroyed much further away from where they were.

And on chapter 33, about the Reaper's Shroud, Nick Kyme sayeth;
"A corpse, its spine broken, its ribs spread and its guts left drooling into the void, drifted past the Reaper's Shroud. The immense Vengeance-class warship dwarfed the broken Necrotor, and its shadow entirely engulfed what was left of the light cruiser."

This is the opening description of the Reaper's Shroud. I'm not sure how you understood this to be one of the super class ship. I had a look through the rest of the novel (albeit quickly) and couldn't find mention of the ship being larger than a Gloriana class. Feel free to point me in the direction of the page if I am wrong.

The description of the Reaper's Shroud, which appears later in the novel over Nocturne, goes like this;
"At first a long prow, crested by a pitted trident. Then a ship's flanks, rough-hewn by war, blackened and battle-scarred. A dirty white hull, edged with ...blah blah blah...Larger even than the Charybdis, it spoke of war unending...blah blah"

I really can't be bothered to look through every single page, but I seem to recall the Charybdis not being anything special and certainly not one of the biggest ships around. Considering the differences in ship architecture between legions, simply having a trident stuck on the front of the ship doesn't really mean much.
So I really don't see where you got the idea that;
Quote:
It was described as being larger than a Gloriana class vessel, which are what they Primarchs flagships are built from.
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post #60 of 69 (permalink) Old 10-02-15, 06:05 AM
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Is it weird I usually feel bad when I'm behind in the Heresy Series, but I pretty much regret with, with all the negative reviews I've heard so far?


Currently catching up on the End of Times and its like... should I stop what I'm reading to jump back into the Heresy?
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