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post #171 of 205 (permalink) Old 06-18-15, 11:09 PM
nice boy, daft though !
 
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How about someone with a background in marketing brands and serialisations.
Take a look at how TSR marketed the Dragonlance novels to promote their Advanced Dungeons and Dragons game.

And the way they have managed WHFB has everything to do with whats going on with HH. Go away, sit in a corner and don't come out again until you understand why.
is that the same TSR who were about to become insolvent and had to sell everything to wizards of the coast , marketing geniuses tsr clearly were not ? plus that was 30 years ago, the world has changed, but again nothing to do with the topic.



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post #172 of 205 (permalink) Old 06-20-15, 02:54 AM
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Their second mistake was in their response to that dissonance when sales dropped. Instead of looking at why sales might be dropping, they chose to raise prices, and raise prices, and raise prices. Oh, and put out less product. Zuh?! Isn't that a classic recipe for a spiral of doom?
"Hey boss, people are buying less of our stuff."
"Great! Make it more expensive, that way we'll get the same amount of money even though we're selling less."
"Done! Uh, hey boss, people are buying even less of our stuff now."
"Great! Make it more expensive, again!"

At this point, the whole system is fethed. I just hope some of the authors who've put out solid work make it out okay.
They've switched to the captive market strategy in the main. Like, academic textbooks and novels etc on reading lists are always expensive because there's a set amount of people who must have those products to study (or pretend they're going to). You know you're going to get around (n) amount of sales out of them.
BL know they can make around (n) amount of sales from the collectors and the people they reckon have committed to the the HH series for (x) amount of years. So they're leaning heavily into it to capture that marked-up guaranteed income. They'll have spreadsheeted the shit out of this. It's why they've engendered the collector mindset, to convince a chunk of the readership to buy everything, or as good as.
Why they've narrowed their focus to largely just this group, I don't know. Easier money? Easier for them to strategise and budget for?

I mean, it's kind of their business model in general, but it seemed that BL had broken out of that gate and was charging off to be a serious competitor in terms of genre publishing. All the chat at the events for a couple years was about how they were breaking out and showing what their brand of tie-in fiction could do at the big boy's table. No longer.
Now it's all pulled back and inclusive and like we're all supposed to be in some prestigious club.
And while it's just personal opinion, I think the quality of the work has dropped alongside that that business philosophy switch in focus.
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post #173 of 205 (permalink) Old 06-20-15, 10:49 PM
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is that the same TSR who were about to become insolvent and had to sell everything to wizards of the coast , marketing geniuses tsr clearly were not ? plus that was 30 years ago, the world has changed, but again nothing to do with the topic.
That's the TSR whose books sold by the millions. Not a few thousand. Do you work for BL because you are seriously licking their butthole.

And it has everything to do with the topic, not my problem you cant understand why.
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post #174 of 205 (permalink) Old 06-20-15, 11:58 PM
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That's the TSR whose books sold by the millions. Not a few thousand. Do you work for BL because you are seriously licking their butthole.

And it has everything to do with the topic, not my problem you cant understand why.
That's a seriously shitty way to argue. Especially against a poster like Bits.
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post #175 of 205 (permalink) Old 06-21-15, 12:14 AM
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That's a seriously shitty way to argue. Especially against a poster like Bits.
Who its towards is irrelevant.

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And it has everything to do with the topic, not my problem you cant understand why.
Right, you either need to check the attitude or get out of the thread. Your free to disagree with Bits and anyone else, but theres no reason to be a child about it.

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post #176 of 205 (permalink) Old 09-08-15, 01:07 AM
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I disagree that any novel is a filler. This is the authors chance to truly flesh out the heresy. I have never understood the mindset of rushing a story we know the ending to. Nothing wrong in my opinion with fleshing out all the legions.
I have always been a strong opponent of the Let's See Everything!/We Have To See Everything! argument. I think it ignores certain narrative features that each constitute to a good old fashioned 'good story.'

For example, you believe the plethora of novels in the Horus Heresy has provided Black Library's team of authors with the chance to ‘flesh out’ the titular event. Meanwhile, I believe this multitude of novels has bloated the series. Both 'flesh out' and 'bloated' refer to the same thing – expansion, addition etc. However, the connotations of these terms are much, much different. Obviously, 'flesh out' suggests encasing the bare bones or bare details of something in blood and flesh and richness and essentially more details. It is adding ‘body’ in effect, adding ‘improvement’ you could say. On the contrary, I use the word 'bloated' because it illustrates expansion beyond natural or safe limits, leading to degradation and a number of negative impacts on the series’ quality such as sluggishness.

'Sluggishness' is the key word here – it’s all about pacing. Pacing is a very important narrative feature that has been making and breaking stories for thousands of years. It influences how we judge a story, regardless of its medium. Pacing is not the smell of bread as it comes out of the oven, it's one of the fundamental ingredients of the dough. Show All The Things! style storytelling effects pacing by increasing the distance between important events with clutter (i.e. non-priorities – which I will discuss later.)

I believe pacing is especially important in the Horus Heresy. To be clear before I begin, I fully understand that this galactic war lasted several years, but this is not necessarily an opportunity for clutter to exist or to defend the existence of clutter. Neither does knowing the outcome of the series justify protracting its publication with events of progressively lesser importance. This is because pacing and time are different. The Horus Heresy has always been portrayed as a handful of major events contributing to the Imperium of Man being left incredibly vulnerable to traitor conquest. Let’s not forget Horus’ trap gave him and his forces a colossal advantage in the war. It was a Purge, a Trap and a Spear Thrust in that order. Purge the Traitor Legions of problematic loyalists, trap and annihilate a massive portion of the enemy's fighting strength and finally march on Terra to kill the enemy's figurehead and conquer their homebase for an absolute victory. It's lightning-fast warfare on an epic galactic scale. Just look at Horus Rising, where the Luna Wolves' preference to go for the throat is referenced for goodness sake. It’s clear foreshadowing of events to come.

However, I do understand there were other important events occurring in and around this time such as the battles of Calth, Prospero, Signus Prime and the schism in the Imperium Secundus for example, but I argue these exist to highlight a galaxy-wide war and to enrich the Horus Heresy’s lore without drawing excessive attention, time and effort (books don’t write themselves) from Horus’ spearthrust to Terra. Subsequent events have been added to the Age of Darkness, such as Fulgrim’s and Angron’s ascensions to daemonhood, for example. As these two are major players during the Siege of Terra and given how these events were comfortably covered in a single novel each, I have no particular issue with them. It is when I see the fate of a primarch who is certainly not a major player in the post-Isstvan Horus Heresy climate such as Vulkan receiving a trilogy of full-length novels and countless supplementary material that I have a problem. To put it very, very bluntly and to save time, the worth and relevance of this storyline in comparison to the ‘main storyline’ (which I INSIST exists – and will discuss later as well) is quite simply not worth their existence or the space they take up in the series.

I have seen people argue against my reasoning by claiming Horus did not sail straight to Terra after the Dropsite Massacre, but needed to consolidate a number of worlds. I agree, however, we are not writing fictional history here, we are writing a story. It took time for Agamemnon to amass the armies of Greece, sail to Troy and lay siege to Troy, but that does not mean we should have the ‘hype’ (and I will discuss ‘hype’ in greater detail below) dried out by a reams and reams of stories about smaller players with less importance during the muster or voyage to Troy. Granted, the Horus Heresy has a much larger cast of characters than Homer’s compiled works or David Gemmell’s Troy Trilogy or whatever we’re comparing, but these things scale up nevertheless. Adding a ton of content with questionable importance degrades events already set up or events to come in my opinion.

Now, I love the Blood Angels and I fell in love with their hasty and noble defence of Terra alongside the Imperial Fists and White Scars. It's testosterone-boiling stuff packed full of sacrifice, glory and unwinnable odds. It’s the fuel of a true man based on the examples of true men like Leonidas at Thermopylae and the garrison of the Alamo. When I first read the Horus Heresy story at 11 I was shocked to discover only three of the Emperor's Legions would defend Earth against almost the entirety of the Warmaster's might. There was a genuine sense of haste and palpable desperation. There was haste to reach and protect Terra despite the futility of it all; there was haste to reach and crush Terra’s defenders before reinforcements could arrive; there was haste to reach and relieve Terra to secure the survival of the Imperium. This is epic, it’s the stuff of legends, just with city-sized battleships and walking cathedral-artillery instead of Greek heroes fighting in sandals.

However, Black Library's style of 'fleshing out' the Horus Heresy, to use your terms, has created a situation where several loyalist primarchs and their Legions have already reached Terra since the Dropsite Massacre, and then have left as they see fit. This completely and utterly obliterates the atmosphere of desperation I described above and surgically removes any feelings of despair we should have for Terra and its defenders with Horus thundering down. A massive Christian army didn't arrive at Constantinople shortly before it fell only to leave as the Ottoman host approached to fight pirates. It's ridiculous. Look, I'm talking about the Siege of Terra, the Decisive Battle, and the Showdown here. A story’s quality should never hinge entirely on its climax, but it is a highly vital stage nevertheless. Was it honestly worth it? Was adding a small titbit to Corax’s story really, honestly worth this? We are all our own judges here.

Similarly the sheer amount of events since the Dropsite Massacre has gradually eroded the suspense that Isstvan V original generated. For example, at the end of The First Heretic we are given a snapshot of the Word Bearers marching on Calth. This created anticipation and hype, and we were rewarded right on time with two fantastic books in the form of Know No Fear and Betrayer. However, novels like Fulgrim and The First Heretic also created hype for Horus' march on his father's domain – Terra, the place where it all began, and the place where it all ends. Terra has deep meaning in the 30k/40k universes and setting the right mood for the peril it is in is paramount. The hype has dried up because its waters have been diverted towards cultivating storylines of questionable importance, and no amount of rereading can rehydrate it. Perhaps Horus’ host breaching the Sol System may resurrect these feelings of anticipation, but I believe it will be too little, too late. There have been too many novels and too many events, many of questionable importance yet again, between these two pivotal events. The taste of destruction and pain caused by the Dropsite Massacre should be still be strong on our lips as Horus docks at Mars, supported by the mayhem documented throughout the galaxy. But unlike those events the Dropsite Massacre opened the door to Terra. It removed a massive chunk of the loyalist's fighting strength in one savage trap. There may have been many miles, many worlds and many foes between Horus and Terra at that point, but actual resistance that was both significant in size and close in proximity was thin. It is the same for Napoleon after the Battle of Borodino on the march to Moscow. The anticipation for myself and many others has completely dried up. Once again let me ask you, was this worth it? Was this worth the 'fleshing out' we received instead?

These two examples of 'fleshing out' have severely backfired and in my opinion they have irreversibly harmed the overall quality and atmosphere of the story. I chose these as they're examples I strongly identify with, but there are many others explained by better posters than I with better posts on this forum.

Show Everything! is a plain bad method of storytelling in my opinion. As a narrative concept pacing is built on priorities. Essentially, to have constant and sustainable pacing a story must make a compromise between its content (i.e. stuff that happens) and the space it takes up (i.e. the time it takes for stuff to happen). Fundamentally speaking, events and characters of a greater importance should be optimised at the cost of other events and characters deemed less important (I’m not saying secondary characters should be planks of wood, but they are secondary characters for a reason where their importance to the story is concerned). Prioritising is a compromise for the greater good of the story. You can't show everything because it harms what you want to show most. It's perfectly possible to have a number of events playing out in the background and to be passed in reference, but to actually show them is exhaustive. For example, I wouldn't write a series on the Trojan War with Agamemnon massing his forces ready to sail to Troy with entire novels based around a slave having a love affair with his master's wife back in Greece now his master is absent, or of a slave rowing one of these ships who’s just made a pact with a God and ends up dying or having nothing to do with the Trojan War at all. Hypothetically speaking, having occasional updates on the Greek fleet’s progress across the Aegean does not justify this either. ‘It’s a long journey.’ Okay, so what?

Let me be clear, by ‘smaller storyline’ I don’t mean something outside of the Mournival, I mean something like the Dark Angels civil war which many fans agree could’ve been written about better in its own series without applying even more brakes to the HORUS HERESY series. Again, people can argue that the Dark Angels duology does contribute to the Horus Heresy, but I would once again argue the relationship between actual contribution and the time/space taken to deliver this. It is my belief that what I categorically class as a ‘smaller storyline’ has harmed and undermined the very core of the Horus Heresy series from a net perspective.

If you wanted to know more about the Emperor’s Legions this could've easily been covered in supplementary material, a Great Crusade series of novels, a 40k novel series pertaining to a specific Space Marine Chapter/Traitor Legion with plenty of retrospective content, or, to be perfectly honest, this could and to an extent has been handled within the Horus Heresy itself but without bloating the novel count. For example, Betrayer gets to grips with the World Eaters Legion superbly well while advancing A) the Horus Heresy in several significant ways and B) advancing certain storylines from The First Heretic too. If Nick Kyme wants to pen a 30k trilogy on Vulkan and the Salamanders that's fantastic, but it ought to be done under a different domain name, because a Shattered Legion are not a priority and should not clutter the main storyline for reasons I have mentioned above (let alone have vastly more limelight than the Blood Angels, but that is a discussion for another day).

I have always firmly believed there IS a main storyline in the same way a Wars of the Roses series will focus on the pivotal kings, queens and factions of those events, with perhaps a few lower-born perspectives for contrast and creativity. What would be the point in writing entire books devoted to some peasant revolt that's planned out but never happens, or an assassination attempt that we retrospectively know will fail? Similarly, why write a novel about Julius Caesar’s time in Spain during Spartacus’ revolt? The likes of Spartacus, Crassus and Pompey are the main players here. Just because an important figure like Julius Caesar exists in the same timeframe doesn’t mean a cosy novel set in Roman Republican Spain would benefit the series at all. It wouldn’t. As I have stated and will continue to bleat, 'filler content' is highly harmful. Meanwhile, to suggest there isn't a main storyline in the Horus Heresy is to confirm my suspicions that the Horus Heresy series is no longer a series in a true sense, but a sandbox-like setting as 40k exists.

This is my opinion on your post and your post alone, Garviel loken. I have other problems with the Horus Heresy series, but they are not relevant to this post in particular, and more importantly they have been covered several times before in fantastic detail by other posters on this forum.

I understand this is a rather large post, but the Horus Heresy is a rather large and complex series as well, and frankly, what I perceive to be its problems are pretty complex as well. If anything, the fact members such as I and others in this thread are willing to type at such length about the Horus Heresy is testimony to our respect and (former) love for this series. I came here to write this because I called the Heresy a 'bad series' on Skype earlier to a friend. I didn't expect it, but it felt heart-breaking. I've known of the events of the Heresy since I first enjoyed 40k in the early 2000s, and read an incredible then-detailed summary of the war in 2005 when I was 11 that absolutely blew me away. Black Library's Horus Heresy series was a dream come true for myself and many others. I still love this IP, but sadly the Horus Heresy series is no longer by cup of tea.

I even wrestled with myself as to whether I should post this as I'm aware several Black Library authors visit this forum, and I feel my bleak outlook on the evolution of the series isn’t the most confidence-inspiring thing for them to read after their hard efforts. In the end I decided to write this because even if just one person could connect to my opinion, but couldn't put their feelings into words like I could, it would be worth it.
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post #177 of 205 (permalink) Old 09-08-15, 02:42 AM
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Excellent post, @bobss . Too much there to quote specifically, but I do agree that the series has bloated beyond anything manageable. It's moving outward without moving onward at any appreciable rate, and has led to a degree of stagnation. If it has become a sand box, I think the cat has been shitting in it lately.
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post #178 of 205 (permalink) Old 09-08-15, 06:44 AM
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Truly excellent post there. I don't have a single point to argue against and agree with it all. The comparisons you drew were truly excellent and eloquent. I wish I had the motivation to make a lengthy a reply as yours. And there, that in itself is my argument in a sense. There was a time with this series where I would have wanted to write an essay on it to defend it, to show how amazing it was. But it's just falled by the wayside now.

This is a series where initially, I couldn't wait to buy the next novel. I was pre-ordering them, and then hoping and hoping that the pre-orders would get sent out quite a bit early. I would come onto this site and see someone had posted that they had received theirs that day and then practically sit in front of the letter box waiting and hoping for mine to arrive. If it didn't, I would be so, horribly disappointed and then get ancy and anxious every morning until it did arrive, jealous of those who were reading it, paranoid about seeing a spoiler on here about it, but at the same time, desperate to jump into the novel specific thread and discuss it or see what others were saying about it. Whenever it did arrive,I would drop almost anything else I had going on and read it. Work breaks, reading. When I wake up a little earlier than usual, read it. When I got home, read it. I would finish those novels within a small number of days and even then because I was deliberately trying to slow myself down.

Compare that to now. Now, I look at these novels and think "hmmm wonder if I'll bother with that when it comes out......probably not". The new expensive first release formats don't help, I mean I really liked them when they first came out and I was in love with the series, with dreams of a completed collection on my bookshelf in that handsome hardback editions. But now, I can't even begin to justify that kind of money on yet another Shattered Legions story, but we'll get onto them in a moment. I just don't look to any novels with anticipation or excitement anymore. ADB making a return to the series had got me hopeful, but I must admit that even then, it's not with the same excitement. This is ADB excitement alone, I'd be excited about any release from him. Before any novels by him or Abnett were double doses of awesome. Not only was I getting a new Heresy novel, but it was being written by one of the two big hitters! (I hadn't even heard of Wraight before his Heresy and the Fang novels I confess). Where as now, again, I'm purely hyped because of ADB, that it's a Heresy novel is nice, but not as impactful as before.

So yes. The Shattered Legions. I can't even begin to fathom how the creative team thought it would be a good idea to devote so much time and effort into the three Legions that were all but annihilated at Istvaan. I mean, really, wheres the impact of the Dropsite Massacre now? I remember reading about it waaaaaay before the Heresy series began and being blown away that the Loyalists suffered such a huge loss. Before in the initial William King short, the assumption was that they were just scattered too far across the galaxy, that Horus had struck so fast, that they just simply had no time to get back to Terra, with the exception of the Blood Angels, who just made it, and the Space Wolves and Dark Angels, who were just able to be close enough to effect the end game. Then I read about the events at Istvaan V and was again, blown away. It was huge, pivotal, game changing, no, game breaking, a true show of Horus tactical and strategic genius. He had not only announced his intentions, but he had massacred three loyalist Legions in doing so. Yet.....here we are. Almost 30 novels since reading about that catastrophic event back in Fulgrim, and somehow, there's more novels, shorts, audios and novellas devoted to these Legions than any other. The Dropsite Massacre was meant to take them out of the game, but they are somehow very much in the war, still putting up more of a fight than any of the intact Legions.

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Now, I love the Blood Angels and I fell in love with their hasty and noble defence of Terra alongside the Imperial Fists and White Scars. It's testosterone-boiling stuff packed full of sacrifice, glory and unwinnable odds. Itís the fuel of a true man based on the examples of true men like Leonidas at Thermopylae and the garrison of the Alamo. When I first read the Horus Heresy story at 11 I was shocked to discover only three of the Emperor's Legions would defend Earth against almost the entirety of the Warmaster's might. There was a genuine sense of haste and palpable desperation. There was haste to reach and protect Terra despite the futility of it all; there was haste to reach and crush Terraís defenders before reinforcements could arrive; there was haste to reach and relieve Terra to secure the survival of the Imperium. This is epic, itís the stuff of legends, just with city-sized battleships and walking cathedral-artillery instead of Greek heroes fighting in sandals.

However, Black Library's style of 'fleshing out' the Horus Heresy, to use your terms, has created a situation where several loyalist primarchs and their Legions have already reached Terra since the Dropsite Massacre, and then have left as they see fit. This completely and utterly obliterates the atmosphere of desperation I described above and surgically removes any feelings of despair we should have for Terra and its defenders with Horus thundering down. A massive Christian army didn't arrive at Constantinople shortly before it fell only to leave as the Ottoman host approached to fight pirates. It's ridiculous. Look, I'm talking about the Siege of Terra, the Decisive Battle, and the Showdown here. A storyís quality should never hinge entirely on its climax, but it is a highly vital stage nevertheless. Was it honestly worth it? Was adding a small titbit to Coraxís story really, honestly worth this? We are all our own judges here.
Which brings me to these excellent points. I, like yourself, fell in love with the story of the Heresy from that one short story about it. And again, like yourself, with the Blood Angels in particular, to the point where they then became the first army I collected. The Siege sounded so epic, so grand, desperate, forlorn and hopeless. The defeat didn't seem likely, it seemed inevitable, a forgone conclusion. There were heroic moments and triumphs. Sanguinis defeating Ka'bandha(who was then unnamed) is still one of my favourite moments of the entire saga, and one I will still look forward to reading despite everything. Or the Khan rallying what was left of the armoured divisions to retake the Lions Gate Spaceport. Other Loyalists then trying to retake the Eternity Wall Spaceport but being thwarted. The Sky Fortress that tried to return the Khan to the Emperors side for the final moments but was brought down, yet still managing to hurt the traitors terribly in it's final moments. These were all epic and heroic. Yet ultimately futile, a band aid to a arterial wound. Last stand moments, death and glory, but certain defeat. Something that I just don't believe the series can capture anymore, if nothing else but due to your next point I've quoted.

All that desperation that the above set, the race of the Blood Angels to be there, the full flight attempt of the Dark Angels and the Space Wolves to be there in time. The Space Wolves.....Leman Russ. The VIth Legion. They, were rushing to breaking the Siege. Imagine my fucking surprise then, to discover that Leman Russ and his Legion had already returned to Terra before the event and then left again! When I read he was there in Vengeful Spirit, there was none of my usual excitement at seeing the Wolf King, it was sheer and utter disbelief. I actually sat there and reread the passage several times, not quite sure that I could actually be reading it correctly. Corax returning and leaving was one thing, his Legion was barely existent as it was and guerilla tactics always was there thing. But Russ! Leman Russ!! Of all the Primarchs. It's completely ruined my grand visions of he and the Lion racing to Terra. Indulge me for a moment...

I always dreamt of seeing the Heresy made into reality on screen. A fantasy of course. It's just too big, to grand, now too bloated to ever be made into a film or TV show, nor is Warhammer popular enough for it. But I always imagine how it would be like. In particular, I've always had quite a vivid imagining of Angron declaring his terms to the Loyalists, before Sanguinius and the Blood Angels appear on the wall and have the two brother stare each other down as Angron give the command to attack, all set to 'The Battle' from the soundtrack of Narnia: The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe. I still think of it now whenever that theme comes on my playlist.

Another one I had, set to no particular musical theme. Was the closing moments of the Siege, before Horus played his Gambit. I imagined the traitors running rampant through the Palace, Greater Daemons perched atop of battlements, triumphant and gloating. Loyalist Imperial Guardsmen and Astartes being cut down side by side in the streets as the traitors ran riot. Move to the Eternity Gate slowly closing as Sanguinus threw the corpse of Ka'bandha through them, the traitors on the other side howling out in frustration. Cut to the Emperor, with Dorn and the Angel by his side, along with their remaining men and the Custodians, awaiting the inevitable. Then to Horus, on the bridge of his flagship watching the Siege with satisfaction, knowing that his victory is at hand. Then there would be what would amount to whisperings almost like the ones from Lost, demons frantically warning Horus, whose eyes would grow wide with terrible realisation and surprise. We'd then be taken to an empty patch of space, viewing the Sol System from a distance, then the camera would slowly pan around and reveal a colossal and powerful fleet, the iconography of the Space Wolves and Dark Angels clear across their flanks. A fleet of such significant size that the Siege would be ended. We'd then see the Lion and the Wolf on the bridge together, the two with such a fierce rivalry side by side, together grimly heading into the maelstrom of the Siege.


So yeah, sorry to digress that much, probably lost a few of you on the way. Still love to imagine it. But there's a problem with it now. Now I can't help but see Russ a little agitated and nervous, no doubt thinking "FUUUUUUCK, why the fuck did I leave????" or the Lion thinking "Oh piss it, why the fuck did I spend so much time dicking about with Guilliman".

On that note I'm going to end this post. I've so many more gripes. But that's just the point. They're endless now. Just like this series apparently.
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post #179 of 205 (permalink) Old 09-08-15, 09:06 AM
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To offer my two cents. The Age of Darkness, the 7 year period from Horus throwing down the gauntlet at Istvaan till the Siege of Terra. It is my feeling that its this which have taken so many people by suprise, judging from this thread.

GW is simply filling out the blanks of what happened in this period.
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post #180 of 205 (permalink) Old 09-08-15, 10:32 AM
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Fantastic post, AOB. I've never gotten into the limited editions myself, but I had the same silly excitement for each novel release. Avoiding the A Thousand Sons spoiler thread was a Herculean challenge. It's good to see such devout fans of the series wrestle with their honest feelings.

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To offer my two cents. The Age of Darkness, the 7 year period from Horus throwing down the gauntlet at Istvaan till the Siege of Terra. It is my feeling that its this which have taken so many people by suprise, judging from this thread.

GW is simply filling out the blanks of what happened in this period.
I've made my opinion on the Age of Darkness clear in my post, but honestly mate getting to grips with it would be colossal, literally a dissertation! To briefly recap what I posted last night, I have no fundamental issue with the Age of Darkness, it's a perfectly logical thing to happen as the road to Terra is blasted open. It's how this period has been executed, with some excellent events that are perfectly justified in existing and many that are not. Again I would remind you of my holy formula: does an event's purpose justify the time it has taken up and the distraction it has served from the main storyline? Angron's ascension? Yes. Vulkan running around the galaxy? No (in my opinion). Do you read the Wheel of Time? The biggest criticism levelled at the series is how it spends entire books focusing on characters and storylines of questionable importance. To provide another history example: I was reading about the Fall of Rome in 410 AD the other day with a cup of tea. Just one of those detailed Wikipedia articles that paints a holistic picture of the event. Stuff like the Huns pushing the Goths into Western Europe, or the Goths battling other Gothic factions in Roman lands, or the schism between each half of the Roman Empire was all highly interesting, but received nothing more than an empirical explanation before moving on to, you know, the Fall of Rome. This article knew it's priorities, and a story functions the same. Imagine in Hamlet if we had a whole act dedicated to exploring the political climate in Norway and the decisions that Fortinbras made to invade Denmark. All fascinating stuff but totally removed from the actual purpose of the play, never mind it's passive effect of bloating and dragging the play at a high cost to its quality.

It seems fans of the Horus Heresy have split into those who wanted a tightly written, epic saga of 15-20 books and those who are much happier for >50 volumes for all the juicy fluff intricacies. My post last night awkwardly gets around how you can't have both.
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