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post #41 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-04-15, 12:40 AM
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post #42 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-04-15, 03:22 AM
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From the Grey Knights Codex...

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In his infinite wisdom the Emperor foresaw that even should He prevail against Horus the threat of Chaos would remain. He knew that of all the Imperium's many foes, the daemonic was the greatest threat, and so He created a brotherhood of incorruptible warriors to fight Daemons.
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Blessed with both superhuman physiology and the most advanced Imperial weaponry, the Grey Knights would be the elite of the Adeptus Astartes. However, it would not be enough for them merely to be strong of body and skilled at war, though in this they surpass even other Space Marines.
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His greatest warriors, the Space Marines, had proven fallible to the temptations of the Dark Gods and so the Emperor set out to create a new soldier in His bid to protect Mankind.
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In Malcador's absence, the Emperor had prepared a concealed fortress-monastery on the moon of Titan. Hidden under layers of rock and shrouded by powerful technologies, the structure had eluded discovery by the Traitors, their armies focused on Terra where the fate of the Imperium was unfolding. After departing the Emperor's Palace, Malcador's charges parted ways. The four human lords created the framework for the Inquisition, tasked with rooting out heresy from within the Imperium. Malcador took the eight Space Marines to the fortress where he set about laying the foundations of a new order of Space Marines. Everything had been prepared for the coming of the Sigillite and the Battle-Brothers; an army of Servitors maintained the fortress while cryo-vaults hidden at its core contained vast stocks of gene-seed.
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post #43 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-04-15, 09:15 AM
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And yet the Horus Heresy series depicts the opposite. Malcador funded, built and gathered the Grey Knights on his own, with the aid of Nathaniel Garro and the Knights-Errant. The Emperor merely gave approval to the project, he wasn't directly involved as he was busy sitting on the Golden Throne and keeping uncountable hordes of Daemons from escaping through the human Webway Gate and raping Terra.


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post #44 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-04-15, 12:39 PM
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Crazy, eh?
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post #45 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-04-15, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Vitarus View Post
Crazy, eh?
Yep. The way I view it is that the Codexs and the like are the Imperium's official view on events, they are what the Imperium thinks happened. The novels are what actually happened.


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post #46 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-04-15, 07:08 PM
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Okay, this is absurd.

1. 70 Genestealers not just defeating, but crushing 10 Grey Knights, who are stronger than the average Space Marine, to the point of taking prisoners.
2. Genestealers mind-controlling enemies, which has not been an ability they've apparently previously had (well, not in this fashion).
3. Genestealers mind-controlling not just anyone, but a Grey Knight, who are powerful psychics and supposed to be resistant to that stuff.

Regardless of who, exactly, brought the Grey Knights together, I'll add mine to the chorus of voices denouncing this. I mean, if it was an entire Hive Fleet, that's one thing, but... well, you get the gist.

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post #47 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-05-15, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VulkansNodosaurus View Post
1. 70 Genestealers not just defeating, but crushing 10 Grey Knights, who are stronger than the average Space Marine, to the point of taking prisoners.
60-80+ Genestealers, creatures with claws that can shred Terminator armour like paper, defeating only ten Space Marines, albeit a special kind but not one that has been definitively stated to be physically superior to a regular Astartes, that were caught completely off-guard by the Genestealers and were very likely ambushed when they were alone rather than the 'stealers letting them all group together.

I fail to see how that is absurd.


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post #48 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-05-15, 10:36 AM
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See here's the thing I've still not quite understood; how were they ambushed?

I mean it's a Grey Knight ship, not a space hulk. Genestealers can't teleport and Grey Knights aren't exactly inclined to let any random ship dock in their cruiser, which rules out that was Genestealer infestations spread. They're psychic and (inferring from Ahriman: Sorcerer here) that would mean if the crew were compromised they would know. So how exactly does a brood of Genestealers get aboard a Grey Knight ship without anyone noticing and then proceed to isolate the Grey Knights (given that they are almost always in constant connection with one another and so the moment one was under attack, all the others would know). Is that explained or is it just stated as a fact as if we are supposed to make up a reason why that could possible happen?

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post #49 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-05-15, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
Defeated aye, but controlled? That's bollocks. If that's the case, why don't Genestealers control Marneus Calgar or someone else. You know, someone whose mental fortitude isn't supposed to be legendary and part of an order which is composed of the most powerful and best train psykers the Imperium can muster. It's a cheap gimmick that makes a mess of the Grey Knights just to push a few more copies of some crappy ass audio drama.

Besides, it's not like it's a whole hive fleet. It's just a nest of Genestealers for fucks sake. You know, the stuff that regular marines face down regularly and none of their dumb asses get possessed. Total bollocks!
Maybe because Marnus calgar isn't a psyker? Perhaps the connection to the warp a psyker has allowed them to be taken over by the hive mind easier.

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GK's are the ultimate weapon. They have no physical equals, only the denizens of the Warp should ever pose a threat to them. They're mini-Emperor's literally.
So explain how the wolves gave them a bloody nose?


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That's 3rd edition talking, mate. They are the Navy SEALS of the Space Marines, harder better faster stronger, and are used in operations involving the Crons, Eldar, and used against unknown foes.
I though that was supposed to be the point of the deathwatch? You know the arm of the ordo xenos?


Quote:
Originally Posted by VulkansNodosaurus View Post
Okay, this is absurd.

1. 70 Genestealers not just defeating, but crushing 10 Grey Knights, who are stronger than the average Space Marine, to the point of taking prisoners.
2. Genestealers mind-controlling enemies, which has not been an ability they've apparently previously had (well, not in this fashion).
3. Genestealers mind-controlling not just anyone, but a Grey Knight, who are powerful psychics and supposed to be resistant to that stuff.

Regardless of who, exactly, brought the Grey Knights together, I'll add mine to the chorus of voices denouncing this. I mean, if it was an entire Hive Fleet, that's one thing, but... well, you get the gist.
70 Genestealers who are capable of working together in ways that one can only start to imagine. Whose intelligence is still fully unknown.
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post #50 of 68 (permalink) Old 01-05-15, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deus Mortis View Post
See here's the thing I've still not quite understood; how were they ambushed?

I mean it's a Grey Knight ship, not a space hulk. Genestealers can't teleport and Grey Knights aren't exactly inclined to let any random ship dock in their cruiser, which rules out that was Genestealer infestations spread. They're psychic and (inferring from Ahriman: Sorcerer here) that would mean if the crew were compromised they would know. So how exactly does a brood of Genestealers get aboard a Grey Knight ship without anyone noticing and then proceed to isolate the Grey Knights (given that they are almost always in constant connection with one another and so the moment one was under attack, all the others would know). Is that explained or is it just stated as a fact as if we are supposed to make up a reason why that could possible happen?
That admittedly is not explained. Seydon does make it clear near the end that the Genestealers caught them by surprise but no definitive explanation is given for how they got aboard. The GK ship is orbiting a dying world however, I think the idea is that the 'stealers came from that world and somehow managed to get aboard the GK ship.


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