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post #21 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-25-14, 08:01 AM
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Maybe he's improved but I'm not even prepared to risk that level of literary abuse to find out.
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post #22 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-25-14, 09:59 AM
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Any chance of the spoilers for the Long Night mate?
I've only got Master of the First, Long Night isn't available yet.



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I do love how we don't even need CotE to comment anymore, chances are he has already said something intelligent before that can be re-applied to the current situation.
Heresy's Background FAQ. (Fluff Project)
CotE Reviews: Prospero Burns (HH Review), Age of Darkness (HH Review).
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post #23 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-25-14, 07:38 PM
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I'm assuming ADB wrote LN?
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post #24 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-25-14, 08:59 PM
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I'm assuming ADB wrote LN?
Ja.
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post #25 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-26-14, 07:09 AM
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I Love there audio dramas And I love night lords, so will be picking this one up For sure



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check out what im working on http://instagram.com/revilo444
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post #26 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-26-14, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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I hear you. I hope I didn't come off too over-the-top with my last response!
Nothing to worry about!

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I dunno, I don't think I'll ever be forgiving him for killing Nemeil off like he did. Not because I really like Nemeil or anything, just because it was an appaling decision and just plain retarded.
I do agree! Killing of one of the few fleshed out loyalist characters for no apparent reason other than he spoke up against the Primarch in a way that didn't fit in with the previous established character-traits. It came out of nowhere and served little to no purpose.
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post #27 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-26-14, 06:50 PM
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Agreed. While I wasn't necessarily a fan of the story and characters of Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels, Nemiel's death seemed like a case of author's fiat - and went contrary to the character of the Lion as shown thus far. If the intent was to show that there is a dark side to the Lion... well, there probably should have been some build-up to that.
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post #28 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-27-14, 07:27 AM
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How odd.


That's Lion El'Jonson speaking, circa "Savage Weapons". What he says makes sense, given the fact that the Night Haunter and the Night Lords weren't so much fighting the Dark Angels over the past 26 months as they were drawing them into a interstellar game of Whack-A-Mole.

A scant time later, the Dark Angels use Tuchulcha to ambush the Night Lords. They destroy roughly thirty percent of their enemies, who in turn scatter to the four corners of the galaxy.

I want to re-emphasize this. It took practically everything going the Dark Angels' way for them to destroy a third of a Legion. Given this, I sincerely hope that the person responsible for the intro descriptions is taking massive liberties. Why? Because the idea that the Dark Angels are somehow all of a sudden understrength completely contradicts the events described in The Lion and the decisions El'Jonson made in that story and in subsequent events. That is, if he's not operating with a roughly full-strength legion, his already bizarre call to let Typhon and a Death Guard fleet go free becomes ridiculous. His notion that he'll be a force to be reckoned with precisely because of the intact state of his legion makes no sense.

Again, I hope I'm overreacting and this is nothing more than a poorly-written blurb. If that's not the case, though, it's going to be rather frustrating going from this point on. Gav Thorpe's been apparently given the helm since The Lion (he also wrote "By the Lion's Hand", in the Imperial Truth anthology), so it's not like it can even be said that different authors went in different directions!
Agreed. I think its a bit too bad, but maybe there is some unwanted reaction to that lore. I assume in this eventuality the Night Lords are even worse off and the Dark Angels are a bit scathed just trying to hunt them down.

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Agreed. While I wasn't necessarily a fan of the story and characters of Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels, Nemiel's death seemed like a case of author's fiat - and went contrary to the character of the Lion as shown thus far. If the intent was to show that there is a dark side to the Lion... well, there probably should have been some build-up to that.
Also agree with this. I actually think the Lion had a descent push with those two first novels to develop his character. Not sure how you actually felt about the death of Nemiel. But I don't feel Nemiel's development or death contributed to the Heresy. I feel it was just wasted. Perhaps it was meant to kind of go against the flow of characters being built up between each legion. Like in a sense place, the importance on the events rather than the characters. Still... can't help but feel bad about his disappearance. Its too bad, but I'd still like to read a novel which would make sense of the thing, obviously one with a different plot than the Lion chasing Curze around.

If I think hard enough, the series with Lion El Johnson and the Ultramarines series have a commonality in the sense that they are both legions with their own events. But it only shows because of the amount of material being portrayed about them rather than the quality. The Lion's fluff is really jumbled and makes little sense compared to Guilliman's.

As far as the audio goes, I'm pleased to hear a bit about Astellan's history. It creates a bridge in which Angels of Darkness makes more sense and also contributes to the concept of different Fallen with different motives.
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post #29 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-27-14, 08:19 PM
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I was never attached to the character of Nemiel, but that's not to say I was calling for his head. Rather, I wanted both him and Zahariel to become more fleshed out and interesting.

I agree that the Lion's fluff is out there. Practically every story he's been in thus far has shown him in a radically different light. In Descent of Angels, he would appear gregarious and well-meaning one scene, only to be ruthless and secretive in another. In Fallen Angels we get very little insight on his character and have to instead rely on Nemiel's bizarre observations. In "Savage Weapons", we get a taciturn knight-primarch who balances nobility with pragmatism. In The Lion we see a potentially psychotic killer who may or may not be talking to himself and makes highly questionably decisions. In The Unremembered Empire the Lion combines his decision-making from The Lion with his personality from "Savage Weapons" - though Guilliman is able to overcome his barriers and gets his brother to finally express some of his worries.

I expressed my thoughts about "Master of the First" in another forum already:

I can't say I was really a fan of this particular work. It's satisfying in that it provides an update on the doings in Caliban, and provides some light in the actions of Luther and Astelan specifically, but much of it struck me as the product of author's fiat. The conclusion wasn't that great, in my opinion.

The voice acting is quite good, with one glaring exception:


The general plot more or less connects with what we "knew" from Angels of Darkness:


Neat little tidbit of info:


The low point of this audio drama:


"Master of the First" is 35 minutes long. It adds valuable insight to Astelan's mindset. Other than that, though, I wouldn't recommend it unless someone was driven to be a completionist where the lore of the Dark Angels or the Horus Heresy are concerned.
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post #30 of 32 (permalink) Old 10-28-14, 08:00 AM
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it struck me as utterly ridiculous that these Space Marines - who were rebelling because they believed Luther stood against the Emperor - would simply throw down their arms and be taken captive. This is doubly disappointing, given that Gav had Corswain turn tail and run from daemons in The Lion.[/spoiler]
What do expect...it's Gav Thorpe. The man is only marginally better than the likes of Andy Hoare.

I'm sure both are fine blokes but they can't write (well...their writing is serviceable for codex entries)
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