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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-04-14, 12:30 PM
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mal310 - no, the packs was sent after Istvaan 3. It is cemented in Unremembered empire. The idea got to BL in the middle of the Heresy - so, that's why it seems the decision was made after Nikea
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-04-14, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Anakwanar View Post
mal310 - no, the packs was sent after Istvaan 3. It is cemented in Unremembered empire. The idea got to BL in the middle of the Heresy - so, that's why it seems the decision was made after Nikea
I’ve just checked Unremembered Empire, I cannot find any reference in relation to the wolf pack being sent because/after Istvaan 3. The way I read it they were sent at the same time that the rest of the Wolves were sent to Prospero.

As I said in my last post on this point, the wolves who arrived with the Blood Angels knew nothing of Horus’s treachery so they could not have been sent after Istvaan 3.

I think the pertinent quote would be ‘If one can fall, more can fall’. Faffnr Bludbroder

Last edited by mal310; 02-04-14 at 10:51 PM.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-04-14, 09:30 PM
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Which is all completely inconsequential and pointless.

Who cares about the fates of various 'packs' sent to watch over the primarchs. Dwelling on them in detail adds nothing a short piece of exposition wouldn't. The point of these packs is to show Leman Russ took his, perhaps self-appointed, role as the 'Emperor's executioner' very seriously and didn't fully trust any of his brothers and wanted contingencies in place. It shows a further sundering of brotherhood and the climate of fear in the Heresy. The example of one pack demonstrates all this, there's no need to go on about the rest.

A pointless audio-drama.

Adds nothing we haven't seen before, doesn't further the overall narrative and provides us with no new worthwhile characters or characterization.
Your opinion. Nothing more.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-05-14, 07:48 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rems View Post
Which is all completely inconsequential and pointless.

Who cares about the fates of various 'packs' sent to watch over the primarchs. Dwelling on them in detail adds nothing a short piece of exposition wouldn't. The point of these packs is to show Leman Russ took his, perhaps self-appointed, role as the 'Emperor's executioner' very seriously and didn't fully trust any of his brothers and wanted contingencies in place. It shows a further sundering of brotherhood and the climate of fear in the Heresy. The example of one pack demonstrates all this, there's no need to go on about the rest.

A pointless audio-drama.

Adds nothing we haven't seen before, doesn't further the overall narrative and provides us with no new worthwhile characters or characterization.
I agree. I don't disagree with the audio's plot being about a wolf-pack in principle, but it was just so dull in its execution.

It's not like BL are going to tell the tales of every single wolf-pack, but at least make the story you do decide to tell interesting and engaging - nothing happened!

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Originally Posted by mal310 View Post
I’ve just checked Unremembered Empire, I cannot find any reference in relation to the wolf pack being sent because/after Istvaan 3. The way I read it they were sent at the same time that the rest of the Wolves were sent to Prospero.

As I said in my last post on this point, the wolves who arrived with the Blood Angels knew nothing of Horus’s treachery so they could not have been sent after Istvaan 3.

I think the pertinent quote would be ‘If one can fall, more can fall’. Faffnr Bludbroder
Hunter's Moon directly states the packs were dispatched "after Prospero" though that doesn't really narrow it down. I don't think it really matters though to be honest.



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I do love how we don't even need CotE to comment anymore, chances are he has already said something intelligent before that can be re-applied to the current situation.
Heresy's Background FAQ. (Fluff Project)
CotE Reviews: Prospero Burns (HH Review), Age of Darkness (HH Review).
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-05-14, 11:42 PM
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A pointless audio-drama.

Adds nothing we haven't seen before, doesn't further the overall narrative and provides us with no new worthwhile characters or characterization.
Then I hoped you didn't waste your money then. I bought it, and loved it. As an Alpha Legion fan, in the context of the series so far, this 'pointless' audio drama has spoken volumes about where the legion are heading.

Edit: Also wanted to add the voice of the Space Wolf was absolutely spot on.

The Emperor upholds a teleological scheme for the future of man, unifying and perfecting humanity through the intense application of martial violence, and I will endeavour to uphold it.
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-06-14, 09:07 PM Thread Starter
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As an Alpha Legion fan, in the context of the series so far, this 'pointless' audio drama has spoken volumes about where the legion are heading.
How, may I ask?



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Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
I do love how we don't even need CotE to comment anymore, chances are he has already said something intelligent before that can be re-applied to the current situation.
Heresy's Background FAQ. (Fluff Project)
CotE Reviews: Prospero Burns (HH Review), Age of Darkness (HH Review).
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-06-14, 09:35 PM
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How, may I ask?
I have some speculations which I've written out in more detail as the basis for The Serpent's Lair (AL forums) summer campaign which I'll PM you, but here is some food for thought for everyone else.

SPOILERS FOLLOW

Like all the HH shorts, it's like watching the extended cut of a movie series; additional characterisation, small details that are not essential to the plot, but taken together are reflective or key elements that tie up some of the bigger actions together. For example, in THE SERPENT BENEATH (appearing in The Primarchs), an introductory sequence where an Alpha Legion squad takes out some White Scars are linked into a wider narrative (in this case, SCARS) which we know the protagonists' decisions have major implications in the saga.

Hunter's Moon is no different, we get an insight into the prevailing mentalities of the two factions involved; from the wolf packs of the Vlka Fenryka to the changes of the Alpha Legion after they have sided with Horus.

In particular, I urge listeners to consider the following points:

Who is Alpharius? To Torbion (sp), he was under the impression that he had executed the primarch, only to be stunned at the reveal that it was certainly not Alpharius the primarch, even though Alpharius obviously possesses a superior combat prowess than two of the Space Wolves' very best champions.

Torbion describes Alpharius as 'ignoble' and 'rash', and yet any close reader of the books knows that the characterisation of the twin primarchs is that they ultimate pragmatists, noble in intent and unflappable even in the face of the burden placed upon the Alpha Legion. The Alpharius Torbion encounters is very much acting out of character, in fact, to the point where 'Alpharius' is in character, playing the part of an ego driven primarch vying for supremacy in Horus' inner circle perfectly;

If this not the primarch, then who exactly is Alpharius? For readers of other Alpha Legion related stories, I point your attention to both the role of Sheed Ranko in THE SERPENT BENEATH, and the character of Phocron in the 40k story WE ARE ONE by John French (Hammer & Bolter 10). The connection goes beyond the aesthetic.

The armour. In Hunter's Moon, the Alpharius that descends from the titular ship is described as "ornately attired, bare headed, his scalp gleamed copper in the sun". Gav Thorpe takes great pains to describe the primarchs' obsessive detail to making their armour as ordinary as any other legionnaire in DELIVERANCE LOST. Rob Sanders describes a foreshadowing of the Alpha Legions' actions referring to 'other' armour (the implications of this are hard to determine at the moment). Everyone understands that the traitor legions have changed their armour after they sided with Horus, all for different reasons. The question to ask, is why do the Alpha Legion choose to change theirs?

The Emperor upholds a teleological scheme for the future of man, unifying and perfecting humanity through the intense application of martial violence, and I will endeavour to uphold it.
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-06-14, 10:35 PM
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We don't know if that was Alpharius on the ship. I doubt the Wolves even saw him.

Alpharious could have acted rash/ignoble. The Wovles don't have a clue as to how he really is like.

Only the Primarchs and the first captains probably would.

Gave Thorpe and all the other authors with the exception of Abnett butchered Alpharious's image, the former depicting him as soiling his pants in the presence of Horus. So yeah, a grain of salt and all that.

Last edited by Malus Darkblade; 02-06-14 at 10:43 PM.
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-07-14, 09:31 AM
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To Nineswords
You know that Sheed Ranko in THE SERPENT BENEATH
?
Phocron in the 40k story WE ARE ONE by John French
?
You know that - right?
What we need - is a new full novel about Alpha Legion - not some agents, but about the Legion infrastructure and SM

Quote:
as the basis for The Serpent's Lair (AL forums) summer campaign which I'll PM you
Could you extrapolate this and PM me too?????
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 02-07-14, 11:36 AM
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The Doom Eagle bit. Wtf?
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