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post #111 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-25-14, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Alvarius View Post
So, Curze takes two hits in the face from Vulkans hammer, what happens? Nothing. Curze gets hit by Imperial Fists, Ultramarines, Guillimans sword, Lions sword, Space Wolves etc. what happens? Some blood, but nothing more.

Guilliman, one if the best close combatants of all the brothers, what has he done? Well, nothing actually. He just takes hits, one after another. Kor Pheron, Lorgar, Angron, Cruze... When will we truly see the power of RB? Teen marines almost takes him down!? Come on Dan Abnett! Please reply! Fulgrim takes I friggin hammer straight in the face! Pertruabo takes on 20 imperial fists elites without problems. Is Guilliman becoming The Horus Heresys punching bag? And please, I know that The Horus Heresy is all about war, but please give the good guys a break. Some friggin success...

The Lion and Guilliman fighting Cruze. Cruze wouldn't be able to make a hit. Because RG and the Lion are master swordsmen, they know the art of fighting two by two, three by three etc.

I enjoyed large parts of the book. But Guilliman needs a friggin break!!!
I have no sympathy with this viewpoint. To quote myself from earlier in this thread:

Originally Posted by Child-of-the-Emperor View Post
And this is one of the main reasons why there will always be criticisms of the Heresy novels, because everyone has different perspectives on what the limits of a Primarch's capabilities should be.

Personally, I think Lorgar standing up to a titan via psychic means was entirely plausible (as I think every single Primarch portrayal throughout the entire series has been plausible). But then, it doesn't really matter how I justify it or what I think because inevitably people will disagree based on their own interpretations of a Primarch's capabilities, and that's absolutely fine. The only solution is that people accept this variety of opinion among both the fan base and the authors and the inconstant portrayals of the Primarchs between novels.
Aside from that, I am interested to see how Curze gets off Macragge and rejoins his Legion and what happens to make Sanguinius abandon Imperium Secundus and make for Terra without Guilliman and The Lion. The Vulkan plot-line I couldn't care less about.

Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
I do love how we don't even need CotE to comment anymore, chances are he has already said something intelligent before that can be re-applied to the current situation.
Heresy's Background FAQ. (Fluff Project)
CotE Reviews: Prospero Burns (HH Review), Age of Darkness (HH Review).
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post #112 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-25-14, 03:21 PM
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I finished this novel a while back, and I am on the fence about it. From a technical point, it is well written. And I found the fleshing out of the Imperium Secundus arc quite interesting. I also liked the development in Guilliman's character. Guilliman has gone from probably one of the most hated primarchs before the HH series, to one of the most well liked (at least to me).

What I didn't like, as others have mentioned, was the stupid Vulkan Lives plot being brought into this novel. All traces of that story arc should be burned, the ashes collected and then dumped into the deepest ocean. And I felt ripped off to have Sanguinius on the cover, assume he plays a big part in the novel, only to have him pop up at the end in like the last 20 pages or so.

As to primarch portrayals, I personally didn't find Curze overpowered, but the others underpowered. We have Angron getting thousands of tons of rocks dumped on him only to piss him off, Rogal Dorn moving so fast a marine could barely register it, Lorgar (in minutes at the most) mostly recovering from pretty much being disemblowled by Corax, Corax himself having skin literally impervious to hard rounds, Fulgrim taking punches that would crush a terminator's skull... to name just a few examples. But Guilliman has his flesh pierced by shrapnel from rounds that didn't even hit him directly, and then takes several days to recover from his injuries. Hell, Krueger, a regular marine, sustained very similar injuries to Guilliman in Angel Exterminatus (he also got hit by mutliple bolter rounds) and walked away from that battle. And the bit about him being possibly caught off guard by the Space Wolf strike the Lion blocked was just ridiculous to me. All the other showings of the primarchs so far have had their speed and reaction times so far above that of a regular marine, that the idea of a single Space Wolf catching a primarch off guard with a blow he in fact knows is coming is preposterous to me.

And it isn't just a situation of different authors with different interpretations, because Curze is a total beast who sustains almost no damage despite all the fighting he does in the novel, even when Vulkan finally has a proper go at him in the end. I personally hope Sanguinius gets a hold of Curze when they continue this plot, and lays a serious smack down on his ass, one that sees Curze fleeing Ultramar in fear for a change.

The human appendix. Proof of a higher power. A divine kill switch so to speak.

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post #113 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-25-14, 10:18 PM
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But what about the name on the stasis casket that Vulkan is in? 'The Unbound Flame'? That's the name of one of the relics that the Salamanders believe they have to find, before Vulkan judges them worthy and returns. That's an interesting piece of info.
However, earlier fluff talks about how Vulkan opposed the Codex, post-Heresy, so how will this be affected? I'm not criticising here, just interested and curious! There's also the tiny bit where one of the Salamanders who forms the mourning retinue for Vulkan, says that they will take him to Nocturne to bury him there. That would be cool if The Unbound Flame was actually to be found on Nocturne and it was Vulkan.
The rest of the novel I'm a bit undecided about. I sort of liked the Curze thing, though it dragged on somewhat. But these novels are almost more than the story they tell, also being used to salt references to things we know about from 40k and what their origins/original purposes were. This book shows the shaky beginnings of ImpSec, but later ones will tell us what we want to know of how it fares, what it aceives and how it dies. What stops Guilliman and The Lion from keeping their word to Sanguinius? What is Curze going to do now, cos none of us can go through all of that again!
As for the Perpetual and the Cabal, well there was no proof that they were ever what they said they were. Why can't this group be small and taking the course it has through less pure motives than it has espoused? Why not factionalised? The Human Perpetuals we have met have seen a lot, but none of them, beyond the Emperor, are 'Senior Management' so to speak. Are Perpetuals a purely Human occurrence? There's a whole story to be told here, that sounds like it's going to change a lot of what we know about them!

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post #114 of 115 (permalink) Old 01-26-14, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Child-of-the-Emperor View Post
Aside from that, I am interested to see how Curze gets off Macragge and rejoins his Legion and what happens to make Sanguinius abandon Imperium Secundus and make for Terra without Guilliman and The Lion. The Vulkan plot-line I couldn't care less about.
One of the theories (pretty solid, in my opinion) that was presented in The First Expedition forum deals with "Prince of Crows": one of the fleet elements Sevatar re-establishes contact with following their crushing defeat by the Dark Angels is in... Sotha.
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post #115 of 115 (permalink) Old 02-26-14, 08:59 AM
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I liked the book, not as much as I had waiting on this one for months. The Vulkan thing is getting old, the Cabal I could do with out.

I am interested in how the story will progress to get the Blood Angels to Terra and the Ultramarines and Dark Angels missing the siege.

And I'm tempted to custom build a Narek model, he has been a welcome character in both books.

Yeah I take pictures of hot girls. Some one has to.
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