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post #1 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-22-13, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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Had a great day today, with the Lions beating Australia and getting to spend time talking to our favourite writers. I thought I might throw up a few random facts that I can remember from the various seminars.

I asked Dan Abnett if there really are any wolves on Fenris. Categorically, no. He did say there were an awful lot of creatures that looked like wolves though. He wouldn't expand on that. He also mentioned that the original plan was for him to do the TS book and McNeill to do the SWs.

ADB is writing a sequel to Helsreach. Grimaldus is called to judge the Celestial Lions, but it pretty much looks like the CLs get wiped out. Andrej will also make a return. This makes me happy.

We saw 5 slides from the upcoming graphic novel that Abnett has written and the guy who did all the HH covers drew. It's about the UM flagship chasing Kor Phaeron after Calth, and looks bloody amazing.

There will be a sequel to Double Eagle, called Interceptor City. The Phantine will be fighting inside the ruins of a huge hive. Not even an approximate date for this one though.

The Battle of Tallarn will be covered in a couple of novellas, and there will be 10 million tanks. John French will be doing this.

The second book in the Ahriman trilogy will be out next June.

Another major character will die in the next Gaunt's Ghosts book. No clue which though.

Abnett has finished Unremembered Empire,


McNeill also read a piece from his next HH novel, Vengeful Spirit. It will get back to having Horus as the main character.


ADBs next HH project will be The Master of Mankind. I think we can figure out what it will be about. I don't think we'll see too much of the Emperor himself in it though. Most of the authors were at pains to stress that they don't want us to see too much of him as it may remove some of the mystery, but at the same time they don't want him just showing up in the last book and stealing all the thunder.

Dorn and Curze will meet again on Terra. Curze has a few scores to settle before he gets there though, by all accounts.

ADB, French, Abnett and McNeill are all pretty positive that The Scouring will get it's own series. They seemed pretty excited about the dynamic between Dorn and Guilliman, and their conflict over what direction the Imperium should take after the Heresy.

Seemingly there was never any intention to kill off Loken. Abnett said he was adamant about this, saying he had extended plans for him from the start.

We will see Ancient Rylanor again. This is a definite. When this is is another matter though.

The argument about Fulgrim


EDIT: The Alpha Legion will be revisited, but probably not in another book dedicated to them. Both Abnett and McNeill said that the series is beyond the point when Legions get a book solely dedicated to them. When I asked about the fact that it appears that Alpharius and Omegon look to be heading in different directions, he (Abnett) said he was looking forward to exploring that more. He was asked if the AL were traitor or loyalist. His answer was "Both".

EDIT: We also saw a slide of a book cover with the Khan front and centre on the command deck of a star ship surrounded by his sons. There was no title for the book or mention of a date for it, it seemed to be just thrown in as a teaser. Abnett also revealed that the WS are his favourite legion, so it may not be a stretch to say it will be him writing it.

EDIT: I asked McNeill if, at that first meeting to discuss starting the HH series, was there ever a set number of books in mind. He said there was a rough idea of about 25 books, but they never really set a definite number. The success of the first three books really surprised everyone involved, and that led them to decide to just keep going till it was done and they'd covered all the important stuff, basically.

EDIT: McNeill was asked a two part question, first if he would be revisiting Uriel Ventris, and second, were there any plans to do anything further with the demon primarchs. His reply was that they were both pretty much the same question. So Ventris is going to tackle a primarch at some time in the future.

EDIT: There will be more Iron Snakes in various books. They will feature in Warmaster, they will be getting a SM battles book, which he said will tie in with a GG novel. The SM Battles book will cover the overall battle for a given planet as a whole, while the GG book will cover the part that they play in it. He said the Phantine might also show up there as well. He also said he has another novel about them in mind, and may start writing a chapter a month, and that they may do something similar to what they did with Phalanx, release it in a serialized format, and then the book as a whole when it's complete. The BL shepherd sitting there nodded encouragingly at this comment.

EDIT: Seemingly the writers have been told they were having too much fun throwing in teasers about the missing legions, and had to reign that in. Oh well.

EDIT:Abnett also said he never had any intention of going back to Eisenhorn after his trilogy, because he didn't invent the character, and wanted his fate to be decided by Inquisitor players, seeing as that was why he was developed in the first place. He started Ravenor with the intention of making it an ongoing series, but half way through the second book realised that it would only be a trilogy as well.

EDIT: We will see Brin Milo again.

There were a lot of prerelease books there, including the originally titled Vulkan Lives, but I didn't pick any up as I'm pretty much a digital fan nowadays. I was going to pick up the event exclusive Imperial Truth, but nearly fell over when they told me it was forty fucking euro! For a book no bigger than any of the novellas they've brought out. Not a chance.

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post #2 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-23-13, 01:28 AM
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Thanks for the update, Fist.

It's sad to hear that the Celestial Lions might be on their way out. Curse Dembski-Bowden's black heart!

'Unremembered Empire' sounds like it will be a great novel. I won't lie, I'm pretty excited about 'Vengeful Spirit' as well, even on the little information given.

The Battle of Tallarn... sigh. Some things I had always wished were "mythological exaggerations," and "ten million tanks" was one of those things. I'm sorry, but ridiculous numbers like those ruin my suspension of disbelief. You need a planet so badly that you needed ten million tanks? How many starships did it take to get theme there? How many landers to get them down there? And there wasn't a more efficient way to level that much ridiculous firepower? Like the million or Thunderbirds and Stormbirds you could fit on the same number of starships?

The authors have consistently said they didn't want to be slaves to the past, and that they had discretion to expand the background information. They have proved as much already, and this is another incident where (not to be insulting) amateurish efforts from more than a decade ago should have been improved. Forgive my rant, but concepts like that are just not my cup of tea.
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post #3 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-23-13, 01:58 AM
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All very cool info dude, cheers.

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We will see Ancient Rylanor again. This is a definite. When this is is another matter though.
Who said this? And did anyone follow this up with asking about Tarvitz? I've always been one to keep bringing Rylanor up since that quote from Fulgrim, when Lucius tells Eidolon, Tarvitz sent the ancient to guard some underground hanger. There was always going to be some follow up to that, curious as to how they will do it though and who will have survived with Rylanor, if anyone. I'm a massive fan of Tarvitz, but I think I would rather seem him staying dead on Istvaan III with Vipus. Otherwise aside from Torgaddon, Demeter and Temeter(heh), no major characters are killed down there really, and Temeter doesn't really count imo.


As for the Ghosts comment, going to make a thread on that in fact, as it could merit quite a lot of speculation.
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post #4 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-23-13, 02:44 AM
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Honestly, I thought Loken was going to survive since 'Galaxy in Flames', and the reference you mentioned about the hangar was how I thought he, Tarvitz, and Rylanor were going to escape. You can imagine my disappointment when Loken alone was picked up, in "Cerberus Mode", and the other two were nowhere to be seen.

Sigh.
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post #5 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-23-13, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Phoebus View Post
The Battle of Tallarn... sigh.
I thought the same when they mentioned that number, but he went on to explain that at the start of the battle the planet is bombarded and becomes an irradiated waste land, and thereafter any fighting has to be done from the inside of an armoured vehicle. While it may not be ten million battle tanks, there will be that number of AFVs of one sort or another. Seemingly it's an effort to show the Imperial Army played a huge part in the Heresy as well. I will say by the end of his explanation I was convinced. Overall, after reading the likes of Crimson Fist and more recently Ahriman:Exile, and listening to him speak about his work, I have high hopes for John French.

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Who said this? And did anyone follow this up with asking about Tarvitz?
McNeill said he had an idea for Rylanor that would eventually be developed, but had no idea when at the moment. No mention of Tarvitz though.

Remembered more stuff, edited the first post.

Last edited by Khorne's Fist; 06-23-13 at 10:26 AM.
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post #6 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-23-13, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
I asked Dan Abnett if there really are any wolves on Fenris. Categorically, no. He did say there were an awful lot of creatures that looked like wolves though. He wouldn't expand on that. He also mentioned that the original plan was for him to do the TS book and McNeill to do the SWs.
Interesting, I think that the Fenrisian Wolves are the souls of dead Space Wolves and other Fenrisians who have returned to watch over their planet. And they take the form of something familiar to them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
ADB is writing a sequel to Helsreach. Grimaldus is called to judge the Celestial Lions, but it pretty much looks like the CLs get wiped out. Andrej will also make a return. This makes me happy.
Already knew this from ADB's blog but I do hope that Grimaldus can save the Celestial Lions. And more Andrej is definitely a thing that makes me happy too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
We saw 5 slides from the upcoming graphic novel that Abnett has written and the guy who did all the HH covers drew. It's about the UM flagship chasing Kor Phaeron after Calth, and looks bloody amazing.
Will definitely be getting this, love Neil Robert's artwork and I do want to see how Kor Phaeron escapes the Ultramarines.

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Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
There will be a sequel to Double Eagle, called Interceptor City. The Phantine will be fighting inside the ruins of a huge hive. Not even an approximate date for this one though.
Meh.

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Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
The Battle of Tallarn will be covered in a couple of novellas, and there will be 10 million tanks. John French will be doing this.
Multiple Tallarn novellas?? Very cool.

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Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
The second book in the Ahriman trilogy will be out next June.
Awesome.

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Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
Another major character will die in the next Gaunt's Ghosts book. No clue which though.
Not a Gaunt fan so meh.

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Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
Abnett has finished The Unremembered Empire,
Awesome, with the Blood Angels obviously in it as well that leaves only the 7th Legion a mystery. A Traitor Legion definitely, but which one??

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Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
McNeill also read a piece from his next HH novel, Vengeful Spirit. It will get back to having Horus as the main character.
Epic, I was hoping both of those guys would show up again and I can't wait to see what McNeill does with them.

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Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
ADBs next HH project will be The Master of Mankind. I think we can figure out what it will be about. I don't think we'll see too much of the Emperor himself in it though. Most of the authors were at pains to stress that they don't want us to see too much of him as it may remove some of the mystery, but at the same time they don't want him just showing up in the last book and stealing all the thunder.
Good, the Emperor needs a bit more of a presence in the series I think but too much and he becomes just another character. Can't wait to see ADB's take on the loyalists and the Custodians.

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Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
Dorn and Curze will meet again on Terra. Curze has a few scores to settle before he gets there though, by all accounts.
Nice, hopefully they are with the Lion.

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Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
ADB, French, Abnett and McNeill are all pretty positive that The Scouring will get it's own series. They seemed pretty excited about the dynamic between Dorn and Guilliman, and their conflict over what direction the Imperium should take after the Heresy.
Awesome. The Iron Cage, Guilliman vs. Alpharius, the Fall of Caliban, etc. Many many cool events in the Scouring to look forward to.

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Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
Seemingly there was never any intention to kill off Loken. Abnett said he was adamant about this, saying he had extended plans for him from the start.
I read this somewhere else as well. Good, it means that the future story plans for Loken aren't just something they cooked up to justify bringing him back.

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Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
We will see Ancient Rylanor again. This is a definite. When this is is another matter though.
Cool, hope Rylanor comes back to demolish many many traitors. Perhaps kill Eidolon for the final time.

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Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
The argument about Fulgrim
The Reflection Crack'd told us that already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
EDIT: The Alpha Legion will be revisited, but probably not in another book dedicated to them. Both Abnett and McNeill said that the series is beyond the point when Legions get a book solely dedicated to them. When I asked about the fact that it appears that Alpharius and Omegon look to be heading in different directions, he (Abnett) said he was looking forward to exploring that more. He was asked if the AL were traitor or loyalist. His answer was "Both".
Shame that they don't get a devoted book since the Alpha Legion deserve several, but glad to know that the gradually increasing divide between Alpharius (Traitor) and Omegon (Loyalist) will be explored. (Just my opinion of which is which.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
EDIT: We also saw a slide of a book cover with the Khan front and centre on the command deck of a star ship surrounded by his sons. There was no title for the book or mention of a date for it, it seemed to be just thrown in as a teaser. Abnett also revealed that the WS are his favourite legion, so it may not be a stretch to say it will be him writing it.
Dan Abnett and White Scars?? Cool, but I did like Chris Wraight's depiction of them and especially how he described Jaghatai Khan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
EDIT: I asked McNeill if, at that first meeting to discuss starting the HH series, was there ever a set number of books in mind. He said there was a rough idea of about 25 books, but they never really set a definite number. The success of the first three books really surprised everyone involved, and that led them to decide to just keep going till it was done and they'd covered all the important stuff, basically.
Good to know. I don't think working to a set number is conducive to quality, better just to give us as much as is needed until everything has been covered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
EDIT: McNeill was asked a two part question, first if he would be revisiting Uriel Ventris, and second, were there any plans to do anything further with the Daemon Primarchs. His reply was that they were both pretty much the same question. So Ventris is going to tackle a Primarch at some time in the future.
Awesome.

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Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
EDIT: There will be more Iron Snakes in various books. They will feature in Warmaster, they will be getting a SM battles book, which he said will tie in with a GG novel. The SM Battles book will cover the overall battle for a given planet as a whole, while the GG book will cover the part that they play in it. He said the Phantine might also show up there as well. He also said he has another novel about them in mind, and may start writing a chapter a month, and that they may do something similar to what they did with Phalanx, release it in a serialized format, and then the book as a whole when it's complete. The BL shepherd sitting there nodded encouragingly at this comment.
Uninterested in the Phantine as I said above, but Iron Snakes are awesome. Mayhap we might see Priad and Damocles Squad again?? I really hope so.

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Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
EDIT: Seemingly the writers have been told they were having too much fun throwing in teasers about the missing legions, and had to reign that in. Oh well.
Pity, but we've gotten enough teasers for plenty of cool scenarios involving the Lost Legions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
EDIT:Abnett also said he never had any intention of going back to Eisenhorn after his trilogy, because he didn't invent the character, and wanted his fate to be decided by Inquisitor players, seeing as that was why he was developed in the first place. He started Ravenor with the intention of making it an ongoing series, but half way through the second book realised that it would only be a trilogy as well.
Well i'm glad he did, Pariah is awesome and I love the direction the series has taken.


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post #7 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-23-13, 11:51 AM
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The Iron Snakes of Ithaca return! Yes! Fist, you just made me evening!

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I thought the same when they mentioned that number, but he went on to explain that at the start of the battle the planet is bombarded and becomes an irradiated waste land, and thereafter any fighting has to be done from the inside of an armoured vehicle. While it may not be ten million battle tanks, there will be that number of AFVs of one sort or another. Seemingly it's an effort to show the Imperial Army played a huge part in the Heresy as well. I will say by the end of his explanation I was convinced. Overall, after reading the likes of Crimson Fist and more recently Ahriman:Exile, and listening to him speak about his work, I have high hopes for John French.
I like John French's work as well, and I do have faith in him. Also, I'm willing to admit that a large part of my problem with ten million vehicles just comes to my own level of suspension of disbelief, which is in turn informed by my experiences with the military.

What I mean by that is, yes, a lot of what informs the 30k/40k milieu is anachronistic. But it's plausibly anachronistic in the sense that the developers, authors, etc., have always told us that (for instance) personal armor in many cases at least matches guns in a way that exceeds our level of technology.

What they haven't done, though, is offer the same argument for tanks versus everything else. On the grandest level, for instance, massed armored formations are patently stupid when the enemy controls the orbit. As recently seen in 'Mark of Calth, a single starship/orbital platform can annihilate the area that an armored brigade would occupy within minutes (if not seconds). On a smaller scale of warfare, a tank is still simply a slower, more vulnerable, and less capable version of a Thunderhawk - of which a Legion would have thousands.

Still, I can see why the poor Tallarns - whose planet is about to be ravaged by the Iron Warriors - would stick with their tanks. Unless they spent the entire Great Crusade thinking it's a great idea to develop subterranean realms that wouldn't be affected by the surface being obliterated, they're screwed. What else are they going to do, though? Give up? No.

It's how the other side is portrayed that disappoints me. Why are they opting to wage a war they don't need to? If ground warfare becomes truly necessary, Titans are the final solution. It's not even close. The balance is only swayed when certain specialized variants of super-heavies enter the fray. But again, it comes down to ground warfare not existing in a vacuum, as if nothing else was a factor. What idiot commander would sit idly in orbit while super-heavies roll out for combat in numbers great enough to actually contest Titan Legios?

"Ten million tanks" thus becomes just a number to awe the reader. Once you start thinking about it, though, it's a pointless number and a silly statistic. Are the Tallarns massing millions of tanks in one place? Of course not. Thirty seconds of common sense would tell you that such an area would be the size of a small nation. They'd have no way to move, much less get supplied. Maybe a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of them could fight at one time.

Are they spread across an entire world, as would make more sense? What do the Iron Warriors care? They're in orbit. They can send their forces whereever they want. They should hope the enemy is stupid enough to parade their tanks in the open. They can either annihilate them with batteries capable of destroying whole cities, or they can direct overwhelming numbers of attack craft (Thunderhawks, etc.) against them.

Again, I hope John French has an ace up his sleeve. Otherwise, this is going to be nothing more than a pointless exercise in anachronism... for the sake of anachronism.

Sorry about the rant. I know this just boils down to opinion.

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Interesting, I think that the Fenrisian Wolves are the souls of dead Space Wolves and other Fenrisians who have returned to watch over their planet. And they take the form of something familiar to them.
It's neither here nor there, but my assumption always lay with the author telling us that the earliest settlers of Fenris underwent gene-modification to help them survive there. I wonder if that modification didn't lead to rampant mutation for which the endstate was becoming a wolf... By extension, the Canis Helix does the same - hence the Wulfen...

Quote:
Already knew this from ADB's blog but I do hope that Grimaldus can save the Celestial Lions. And more Andrej is definitely a thing that makes me happy too.
I'm right there with you, LotN!

Cheers,
P.

Last edited by Phoebus; 06-23-13 at 12:05 PM.
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post #8 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-23-13, 01:35 PM Thread Starter
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Interesting, I think that the Fenrisian Wolves are the souls of dead Space Wolves and other Fenrisians who have returned to watch over their planet. And they take the form of something familiar to them.
This never washed with me. It's hinted in the HH books and the codex that animals were genetically modified or cross bred with native species to survive. So while they look like wolves, it's simply that they are now genetically so far from a Terran wolf they are no longer wolves. Besides, the theory that they are spirits would almost mean that every time a SW gets killed, a new wolf just pops into existence on Fenris rather than being vorn and bred the old fashioned way. But this is a discussion for another thread.

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I do hope that Grimaldus can save the Celestial Lions.
Nope, they get it pretty bad. ADB was kinda laughing about it with French. They're fucked.

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A Traitor Legion definitely, but which one??
I don't think so. He said that most of the book would take place on Macragge, so I reckon it will be a faction of one of the other loyalists. Because of the Ruin Storm Guilliman has no clue what is going on elsewhere in the galaxy. He doesn't know if the Emperor is alive or dead, if Terra stills stands, and he needs to decide if he is going to try and consolidate and reinforce what he still holds of the 500 worlds, or take the fight to the enemy.

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Mayhap we might see Priad and Damocles Squad again??
Yep, he mentioned Damocles by name.

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my assumption always lay with the author telling us that the earliest settlers of Fenris underwent gene-modification to help them survive there. I wonder if that modification didn't lead to rampant mutation for which the endstate was becoming a wolf... By extension, the Canis Helix does the same - hence the Wulfen...
I've never seen it written or even hinted anywhere that humans underwent any sort of genetic manipulation to survive. I really don't see why a planet that is so inimical to human survival would be settled in the first place. It's not as if it has a wealth of resources that would make it worth the effort of modifying them. Humans are resilient, and we only need look at our modern world to see that we can survive in any kind of climate. Animals however, if not native to an environment, are not as tough, and definitely needed some sort of help. But, again, that's for another thread.

Last edited by Khorne's Fist; 06-23-13 at 01:37 PM.
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post #9 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-23-13, 03:38 PM
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Fist, check out the first eight pages of Chapter Seven, 'A Thousand Sons'. Well, the first eight pages in the e-book version, at least.

It's the type of innuendo that's so prevalent in the series as a whole, but Magnus certainly seems to be pointing his finger at a pretty blatant direction.
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post #10 of 63 (permalink) Old 06-23-13, 04:10 PM
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This never washed with me. It's hinted in the HH books and the codex that animals were genetically modified or cross bred with native species to survive. So while they look like wolves, it's simply that they are now genetically so far from a Terran wolf they are no longer wolves. Besides, the theory that they are spirits would almost mean that every time a SW gets killed, a new wolf just pops into existence on Fenris rather than being vorn and bred the old fashioned way. But this is a discussion for another thread.
Or they are reborn as the Fenrisian Wolves, Wolves that are not Wolves. That's what I think. The idea that they are not Wolves in just a genetic sense seems too mundane for Magnus to take an interest in it, or for it to be worth all the mystery behind it.

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Nope, they get it pretty bad. ADB was kinda laughing about it with French. They're fucked.
Curse them both!! Now excuse me while I shed some tears for the Celestial Lions, may they rest in peace.


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