The Mark of Calth is up for Preorder (Horus Heresy) - Page 3 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
Black Library Fiction Here is where you can discuss your favourite Black Library publications and graphic novels. If it's published by Black Library it goes here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-13, 03:26 PM
Chaos God of Old Night
 
Lord of the Night's Avatar
Lord of the Night's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Eternal Night
Posts: 5,028
Reputation: 48
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gree View Post
And not a single Ultramarine killed in return. The Word Bearers are still Astartes, no matter what condition they were in. But at the end of the day it's six hundred dead Word Bearers for not a single dead Ultramarine. The Ultramarines routing them with such ease was nothing more than terrible writing and quite possibly one of the worst Astartes vs Astartes scenes in all of Black Library.
That is solely down to the choice of terrain and that the Word Bearers couldn't fight at range at the time. The Ultramarines had the high ground with good cover meaning the Word Bearers rushing them would be suicide, they would just be mowed down while trying to climb up at their positions. And since they lacked the ammunition to fight at range they had to retreat, and without much cover that resulted in a lot of deaths. Then the orbital guns dealt with the rest quickly. By that point the Ultramarines are going to win any fight on the surface, but it was solely due to the fact that the Word Bearers had little to no ammunition left that prevented any Ultramarine casualties.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gree View Post
Really, Calth that Was was a terrible novella all around, with flat villians, Ultramarines that really did not read like Ultramarines and some of the more ridiculous cliched action scenes that really don't belong in a published novel.
I won't disagree on the Ultramarines, they felt wooden to me as well. But I liked Maloq Kartho, he felt like a real Chaos Space Marine in mentality as well as appearance, and Hol Beloth felt like the kind of self-serving weasel that could only rise up in the Word Bearers Legion. And aside from the opening scene which I can understand why some people wouldn't care for, the rest of the action scenes felt quite good, especially the scene in the temple with Foedrall Fell.


LotN



https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...red-souls.html - The Kabal of Shattered Souls Project Log
http://www.talkwargaming.com/search/...Book%20Reviews - Check out Talk Wargaming for reviews by Lord of the Night.
Lord of the Night is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-13, 03:50 PM
I am Alpharius.
 
Doelago's Avatar
Doelago's Flag is: Finland
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Finland
Posts: 8,375
Reputation: 10
Default

My opinions on the anthology...

The Shards of Erebus - Meh

Calth that Was - Steaming pile of shit. Seriously, gtfo

Dark Heart - Guess it was OK. Nothing spectacular though.

The Traveller - Meh

A Deeper Darkness - Guess it was sort of OK, at least when compared to a lot of the other crap in the book.

The Underworld War - Good. Very good.

Athame - Quite good

Unmarked - Fucking amazing. Read it, and once I was finished I read it again.


Really, one of the worse Heresy books imo. Was it not for the three last stories I might have dropped it into the bottom five. ADB, French and Abnett saved the whole thing from being an utter pile of shit.

And yes, I also thought that 600 Word Bearers getting butchered without killing a single Ultramarine was fucking retarded, tactical genius or not. Fuck the orbital guns as well.

[Flerden] 9:05 pm: Why the hell can't he just go offline if he goes to watc tv?
[dark angel] 9:06 pm: It is Doelago, we will never know
Doelago is offline  
post #23 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-13, 03:56 PM
Senior Member
 
Gree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 437
Reputation: 2
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of the Night View Post
That is solely down to the choice of terrain and that the Word Bearers couldn't fight at range at the time. The Ultramarines had the high ground with good cover meaning the Word Bearers rushing them would be suicide, they would just be mowed down while trying to climb up at their positions. And since they lacked the ammunition to fight at range they had to retreat, and without much cover that resulted in a lot of deaths. Then the orbital guns dealt with the rest quickly. By that point the Ultramarines are going to win any fight on the surface, but it was solely due to the fact that the Word Bearers had little to no ammunition left that prevented any Ultramarine casualties.
Again, they're still Astartes with all that implies, current condition or not.Executing a well-planned ambush to gain a great victory is perfectly plausible, but slaughtering six hundred Word Bearers without taking a single loss strains belief. You could have replaced the Word Bearers with Star Wars Stormtroopers and gotten the same result for all the competency and accuracy displayed, although the Stormtroopers would have probably retreated in better order.

It really is just a poorly written action scene. I would have accepted minimal losses on the part of the Ultramarines, but the Word Bearers were shat on too much. I really had to facepalm at the part were Venatus get's a killshot with every round he fires later in the book.

I mean, it's fine if you like the novella, but don't try and convince me that was a good novella. You really won't get me to like it at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of the Night View Post
I won't disagree on the Ultramarines, they felt wooden to me as well. But I liked Maloq Kartho, he felt like a real Chaos Space Marine in mentality as well as appearance, and Hol Beloth felt like the kind of self-serving weasel that could only rise up in the Word Bearers Legion. And aside from the opening scene which I can understand why some people wouldn't care for, the rest of the action scenes felt quite good, especially the scene in the temple with Foedrall Fell.
Maloq Kartho was one of the most transparent villains I've seen McNeill write and Hol Beloth retains none of his menace from his all too brief appearance in Know No Fear. Kartho also has bonus points against him from being from McNeill's terrible Ultramarine novels as well. Both are fairly predictable villians in an unremarkable relationship.

Dembski-Bowden and Rob Sanders inject far more character into the villains they put out.

Last edited by Gree; 04-28-13 at 04:04 PM.
Gree is offline  
 
post #24 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-13, 05:04 PM
Senior Member
bobss's Flag is: England
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lincoln, England
Posts: 2,627
Reputation: 8
Default

What was Abnett's short about, Doe?
bobss is offline  
post #25 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-13, 05:11 PM
I am Alpharius.
 
Doelago's Avatar
Doelago's Flag is: Finland
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Finland
Posts: 8,375
Reputation: 10
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobss View Post
What was Abnett's short about, Doe?

[Flerden] 9:05 pm: Why the hell can't he just go offline if he goes to watc tv?
[dark angel] 9:06 pm: It is Doelago, we will never know
Doelago is offline  
post #26 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-13, 05:16 PM
Senior Member
bobss's Flag is: England
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lincoln, England
Posts: 2,627
Reputation: 8
Default

Ah, I see. Cheers.
bobss is offline  
post #27 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-13, 05:25 PM
I am Alpharius.
 
Doelago's Avatar
Doelago's Flag is: Finland
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Finland
Posts: 8,375
Reputation: 10
Default

I only wish it was longer. They should have ditched/cut the page length of Calth that Was and instead have Abnett write a hundred extra pages.

[Flerden] 9:05 pm: Why the hell can't he just go offline if he goes to watc tv?
[dark angel] 9:06 pm: It is Doelago, we will never know
Doelago is offline  
post #28 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-13, 06:12 PM
Senior Member
bobss's Flag is: England
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Lincoln, England
Posts: 2,627
Reputation: 8
Default

Calth That Was feels like classic McNeill Ultramarines, honestly. Granted, I shouldn't judge based on second-hand accounts, but I'm hardly compelled to purchase the anthology by this.

That being said, solid stories which present something new and worthwhile from the likes of Abnett, ADB and Sanders (who is going from strength to strength in my eyes) is enough to balance it out.
bobss is offline  
post #29 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-13, 06:37 PM
Bane of Empires
 
Child-of-the-Emperor's Avatar
Child-of-the-Emperor's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: England
Posts: 5,131
Reputation: 19
Default

I read a few reviews a week or two ago, and most seemed to agree that Calth That Was was well below-par. I'll wait until I read it myself, but it seems that Mcneill really has contributed some utter shite to the latter half of the series. He hasn't done a good book since A Thousand Sons in my opinion.

Most seem to agree that a few good shorts balanced it out though.

Anyway, what do I know, I haven't read it yet. Mind you, still haven't finished Angel Exterminatus.



Quote:
Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
I do love how we don't even need CotE to comment anymore, chances are he has already said something intelligent before that can be re-applied to the current situation.
Heresy's Background FAQ. (Fluff Project)
CotE Reviews: Prospero Burns (HH Review), Age of Darkness (HH Review).

Last edited by Child-of-the-Emperor; 04-28-13 at 06:39 PM.
Child-of-the-Emperor is offline  
post #30 of 53 (permalink) Old 04-28-13, 09:28 PM
Chaos God of Old Night
 
Lord of the Night's Avatar
Lord of the Night's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: The Eternal Night
Posts: 5,028
Reputation: 48
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gree View Post
Again, they're still Astartes with all that implies, current condition or not. Executing a well-planned ambush to gain a great victory is perfectly plausible, but slaughtering six hundred Word Bearers without taking a single loss strains belief. You could have replaced the Word Bearers with Star Wars Stormtroopers and gotten the same result for all the competency and accuracy displayed, although the Stormtroopers would have probably retreated in better order.
But that's it though, they did not slaughter them all. At most they gunned down a hundred to two-hundred of them. The rest were killed by the orbital guns when they ran, and a lot of the traitors that the Ultramarines killed were killed when they were retreating across open ground with no cover. I just think that the battle conditions were explained and those details are the key things that made the victory possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gree View Post
I really had to facepalm at the part were Venatus get's a killshot with every round he fires later in the book.
Well he is a Captain, so it's not implausible that he's a really good shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gree View Post
I mean, it's fine if you like the novella, but don't try and convince me that was a good novella. You really won't get me to like it at all.
Not trying to, just saying what I think. I enjoy a good debate, but I didn't expect to change your mind about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gree View Post
Maloq Kartho was one of the most transparent villains I've seen McNeill write and Hol Beloth retains none of his menace from his all too brief appearance in Know No Fear. Kartho also has bonus points against him from being from McNeill's terrible Ultramarine novels as well. Both are fairly predictable villians in an unremarkable relationship.
I don't know what Hol Beloth you were reading in KNF because I read him totally differently. To me he seemed like the Commander whose high on himself, the guy whose so ambitious that he doesn't realise that he isn't really that good and that costs him everything when he overestimates himself and underestimates the enemy. As to Maloq Kartho I liked how he was willing to sacrifice his own brothers just for his own ascension, that is a step forward towards the Chaos Space Marines that we are all familiar with, the guys who'll screw each other over in a heartbeat to get what they want, Kartho is probably the first one to really do that.


Finished Mark of Calth, my review is on TFF. Some quick thoughts;

The Shards of Erebus - Not good or bad, just eh. No real point to it besides the origin of the Athames in KNF, at least most of them.

Calth that Was - I enjoyed the story and the Word Bearer villains, but the Ultramarines were wooden, except for Captain Sydance, and they just felt like placeholders to me. The human characters were too brief to form an opinion.

Dark Heart - I've read the Dark Word trilogy so quite enjoyed this one, was cool seeing Marduk again and knowing that he's always been an ambitious whoreson.

The Traveller - Very good, Annandale's best short yet. Loved the whispers being injected into the text and the end twist, quite chilling that something like that can exist.

A Deeper Darkness - Best story in the anthology, Sanders really nailed the terror and fear aspects of the story and it felt like a real Warhammer horror story.

The Underworld War - Really good, ADB makes yet another great one. Liked the glimpse of RuthlessLorgar and the reason behind which Word Bearers went to Calth.

Athame - An odd one. Only interesting because of the lore behind it, though a 40k story like that where history lore is not important would perhaps be a better choice. That said the lore connotations this gives are tremendous.

Unmarked - Quite good, loved the history connections and the scene with the monkeys was unsettling to say the least. But the real winner is the lore that this story hints at, what the hell is Persson's mission and why is the Athame so important?? My theory,




LotN



https://www.heresy-online.net/forums/...red-souls.html - The Kabal of Shattered Souls Project Log
http://www.talkwargaming.com/search/...Book%20Reviews - Check out Talk Wargaming for reviews by Lord of the Night.
Lord of the Night is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Fiction, Art and Roleplay Game Discussion > Black Library Fiction

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome