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post #491 of 600 (permalink) Old 10-02-14, 04:56 AM
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I sincerely hope ADB tackles the Mackan conflict in his Black Legion series, preferably from the perspectives of the BA and the BL
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post #492 of 600 (permalink) Old 10-03-14, 10:23 AM
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I sincerely hope ADB tackles the Mackan conflict in his Black Legion series, preferably from the perspectives of the BA and the BL
Indeed. I really want to see the scene when Jorus and his Death Company butcher Abaddon's elite guard and Jorus himself gives the Warmaster one of the closest fights of his 10,000 year existence. A part of me actually wants to see this more than Abaddon vs Sigismund, because Jorus is not massively famous or well-known, he was just a badass Blood Angels Chaplain who went head-to-head with Abaddon the Despoiler and though he lost, he made damn sure that Abaddon and the Black Legion would never forget him or his men.


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post #493 of 600 (permalink) Old 10-03-14, 05:50 PM
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Indeed, though what I'm not looking forward to in the battle is,

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post #494 of 600 (permalink) Old 10-03-14, 09:17 PM
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I finished the book yesterday
I found it to be a very good book, not ADB his best, but very good indeed with powerfull and interesting characters besides some interesting takes on the warp (except the space ship trowing reminded me of austin powers), the book left me with a few questions though
1. the entities in the warp seem to be entangled with (mainly) human emotion, the warps is us..., however we mainly see negative manifestations, where are all the positive emotions ? I understand that khorne also stands for courage and broterhood, the clean kill and all and Nurgle has a certain 'fatherly' feel to it, still, where are the positive emotions (in ToH there was one positive example).
2. a projection on the 40K setting, this would mean the warp would never let nids and necrons slay mankind as it would mean the end of human emotions, also the gods cannot afford to be not interested in humands ?
3. Horus versus abaddon + marines, I would say the horus clone is only a meat clone without his strong aura in the warp, as betrayer learned that marines are genetically bred to be in awe in the presence of a primarch , this cleary not being the case. Plus Abaddon seems to be physically the equal to a primarch making it very strange to believe a BA chaplain wounds him.

As a last remark, and this is not a criticism on ADB his behalf (quite the contrary), ADB created a large amount of powerfull and charismatic characters on the chaos side, there is no balance with equally powerfull/interesting/ (not just martial power) characters on the loyalist side (Chris did a good effort with Njall) the Abaddon versus sigismund fight is epic (I still do not like to see Sigismund being beaten by Abaddon, not because I like sigismund more, but because both sides of the fence need powerfull characters) (I guess we know how that ends knowing abaddon can physically take on a primarch) but BL needs some more interesting characters on the loyalist side to make the end times sort of interesting,
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post #495 of 600 (permalink) Old 10-04-14, 05:08 PM
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1. The entities in the warp seem to be entangled with (mainly) human emotion, the warp is us... however we mainly see negative manifestations, where are all the positive emotions? I understand that Khorne also stands for courage and brotherhood, the clean kill and all, and Nurgle has a certain 'fatherly' feel to it, still, where are the positive emotions (in ToH there was one positive example).
I would surmise that the creatures born of negative emotions would eat the ones born of positive emotions, if there are any to begin with. Rage, Lust, Fear of Death and Ambition are much stronger feelings than say Love, Happiness, Compassion and Humility. Creatures born of the latter and only able to experience the latter would find it very hard to function, whereas the former find it much easier.

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2. A projection on the 40K setting, this would mean the warp would never let nids and necrons slay mankind as it would mean the end of human emotions, also the gods cannot afford to be not interested in humans?
Likely not. I am reminded of what Nagash says in the first of Mike Lee's trilogy, something along the lines of "The Gods should take their goats and be grateful, they need us far more than we need them." The same thought applies here, the Chaos Gods are our darker emotions given form, and if their connection to us is as strong as Khayon believes it to be; then I think that yes, they need us to continue existing. Without humanity, Chaos would wither into nothing.

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3. Horus versus Abaddon + marines, I would say the Horus clone is only a meat clone without his strong aura in the warp, as Betrayer learned that marines are genetically bred to be in awe in the presence of a primarch, this cleary not being the case. Plus Abaddon seems to be physically the equal to a primarch making it very strange to believe a BA chaplain wounds him.
I think he was the real deal, the awe was absent because they were being assaulted by him and in my opinion because the entire group had internalized their distaste for the Primarchs and that was enough to overcome the trans-human awe that the Primarchs invoke in all who see them. As for Abaddon and Jorus, we'll have to wait and see, but I agree that Abaddon here was terrifying, but I think that if Jorus did manage to wound Abaddon so badly that he still has the scars by 999.M41, then he must have been a Badass among Badasses. (I mean, he did manage to wage a guerilla warfare campaign using the psychotic Death Company and kept them all sane while doing it, on his own.)


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post #496 of 600 (permalink) Old 10-04-14, 06:59 PM
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cheers for the answer LOTN,
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Originally Posted by Lord of the Night View Post
I would surmise that the creatures born of negative emotions would eat the ones born of positive emotions, if there are any to begin with. Rage, Lust, Fear of Death and Ambition are much stronger feelings than say Love, Happiness, Compassion and Humility. Creatures born of the latter and only able to experience the latter would find it very hard to function, whereas the former find it much easier.
LotN
in all honesty I find this a rather wild speculation,at the risk of sounding cheesy, but I am not convinced the "positive" emotions are weak and defenseless (do you have kids ?).


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I think he was the real deal, the awe was absent because they were being assaulted by him and in my opinion because the entire group had internalized their distaste for the Primarchs and that was enough to overcome the trans-human awe that the Primarchs invoke in all who see them. As for Abaddon and Jorus, we'll have to wait and see, but I agree that Abaddon here was terrifying, but I think that if Jorus did manage to wound Abaddon so badly that he still has the scars by 999.M41, then he must have been a Badass among Badasses. (I mean, he did manage to wage a guerilla warfare campaign using the psychotic Death Company and kept them all sane while doing it, on his own.)
LotN
also here I am not convinced, i can imagine that fabius can flesh-craft a primarch, but also restoring his link with the warp (which all primarchs seem to have), seems a bit stretched, the emperor annihilated him, also his warp signature ? The clone merely being a flesh clone, I could understand, him being the real deal does not sit well with me. That would make Abaddon insanely powerfull (he still has to receive boons from the gods and primarchs at this point), just taking horus his hammer in flight and breaking it with the Talon, Sigismund and any other "marine" for that matter, do not stand a chance (no Heisenberg, not a chance) against him and as Horus was considered one of the most powerfull, if not the most powerfull primarch, this only adds up.
anyhow I really enjoyed the book, (although the word weaving has been used on almost every page , I think ADB is following a knitting course)
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post #497 of 600 (permalink) Old 10-04-14, 07:21 PM
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I am reminded of what Nagash says in the first of Mike Lee's trilogy, something along the lines of "The Gods should take their goats and be grateful, they need us far more than we need them." The same thought applies here, the Chaos Gods are our darker emotions given form
The Chaos Gods also represent our hopes and dreams, as well as our fears and nightmares. Personally, I dislike the notion of positive and negative emotions - I don't think that makes sense. How can an emotion be negative?

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they need us to continue existing. Without humanity, Chaos would wither into nothing.
As Codex: Daemons tells us: Chaos would be "much diminished" without Mankind, but not eradicated. The gods feed off of all mortals, not just humanity.



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post #498 of 600 (permalink) Old 10-04-14, 07:37 PM
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The Chaos Gods also represent our hopes and dreams, as well as our fears and nightmares. Personally, I dislike the notion of positive and negative emotions - I don't think that makes sense. How can an emotion be negative?
fair point, I guess the argument is that we mainly read about negative emotions in a biblic sense (again, in ToH there was one neverborn manifestation who had a more altruistic take on life ).
In all the books I read never came I across (except for some references towards nurgle) a neverborn/demon/warp thing who seemed to be born from emotions such joy...
e.g. the khorne demon was born after a lot of people got killed by crusaders I think, e.g. mothers seeing their children killed. I would expect a similar reaction when those mothers see their children for the first time after having given birth, these aspects I never read.

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As Codex: Daemons tells us: Chaos would be "much diminished" without Mankind, but not eradicated. The gods feed off of all mortals, not just humanity.
Well it says the eldar were screwed the moment the first man killed, I felt a very stong bias towards human emotions, not solely humans, but if Khayon says the gods are us, I feel this implies mainly human ?
If the nids/necrons kill all humans that would mean over 90 % of living things in the 40K galaxy ?
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post #499 of 600 (permalink) Old 10-05-14, 03:25 AM
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The Chaos Gods also represent our hopes and dreams, as well as our fears and nightmares. Personally, I dislike the notion of positive and negative emotions - I don't think that makes sense. How can an emotion be negative?
In psychology, there are definitions for positive and negative emotions... but that's one of the most simple classification systems. I only studied it briefly but just check out the wiki on emotion classification for some of the complex (some overly) systems.

And LotN's statement that negative emotions are stronger than positive emotions has some truth to it in neurology. See Negativity Bias.

Having said all that... As a sci-fi/fantasy fan, it would have been neat to read about daemons based on emotions like joy and wonder. Other emotions like guilt and shame would make for interesting daemons as well.
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post #500 of 600 (permalink) Old 10-05-14, 07:26 AM Thread Starter
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The Chaos Gods also represent our hopes and dreams, as well as our fears and nightmares. Personally, I dislike the notion of positive and negative emotions - I don't think that makes sense. How can an emotion be negative?
I'm sure there would be a way if emotion could be shown to make a soul feel or be less than it is capable of. I'm sure they could play around with that concept.



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Originally Posted by Child-of-the-Emperor View Post
As Codex: Daemons tells us: Chaos would be "much diminished" without Mankind, but not eradicated. The gods feed off of all mortals, not just humanity.
I've kind of backed away from trusting the Chaos codex. Undivided has little to no bearing except a medium for the four major Gods. This dismissive part of fluff has me scratching my head. Because if the above is really true, and humanity were wiped out, then how would Chaos stand? As still 4 great Gods?
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