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post #21 of 94 (permalink) Old 11-18-12, 12:13 PM
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Can't believe so many people don't like Gaunts Ghosts. I rate it as probably one of the best series I've ever read, with Sabbat Martyr coming right up as one of the best books I've read.
Agreed. The first two books are a bit of that and that, but after that it really picks up and is pure awesome from start to finish.

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post #22 of 94 (permalink) Old 11-18-12, 10:20 PM
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Well book two I think is important as it a compilation of shorts that builts un individually every character of the regiment and shows who they are. Gav Thorpe wrote a great FotE, slightly less good Nemesis and FtT (the last one lacked characters). Dan Abnett writes great books, but some of them are too complicated. PS for instance I did not like as it was dull. It was great from a higher sense (with detailing the culture of the SW), but still too dull.

Rob Saunders Im afraid I would say is a typical hit and miss, as he writes great stories, but i have no idea what the hell is happening in them.
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post #23 of 94 (permalink) Old 11-19-12, 08:55 PM
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I can see where people are coming from with Gaunts Ghosts. A few years ago I tried it and never even got halfway through "Ghostmaker" - just didn't click for me. However, on holiday last year I read "Necropolis" on my kindle and since then I have read every single book in the series. It's different to any other Black Library series and i'm glad I went back to it. The characters and emotions are much deeper than usual, action is awesome and very varied and once you get into the story your hooked.

But.... I can see why people wouldnt like it. Sometimes it doesn't "feel" like 40K if that doesn't sound silly? However, I would definately suggest giving it a second go for anyone who initially gave up on it like me.

On a similar topic I should probably heed my own advice and give "Prospero Burns" another chance eh....
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post #24 of 94 (permalink) Old 11-19-12, 10:35 PM
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Graham is by far the biggest hot or miss author. He reminds me of Sammy Sosa.

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post #25 of 94 (permalink) Old 11-19-12, 10:50 PM
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Can't believe so many people don't like Gaunts Ghosts. I rate it as probably one of the best series I've ever read, with Sabbat Martyr coming right up as one of the best books I've read.
I've just never liked it. Too many of the main or awesome or both of those characters are dead, the Tanith 1st and Only are not an Imperial regiment that really draw me in, the enemy does not include enough awesome Chaos forces and hasn't since Heritor Asphodel died, and I find the series dull for the most part.

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And then got to the Dwarfs finding Skaven 200 years before they were even made, let alone discovered by the Dwarfs.
The Dwarfs discovered some Proto-Skaven, not the actual Skaven society which at that time does not exist. But the Dwarfs will recognize the Skaven as a threat in 200 years from TGB, but that is not to say that they never saw any signs of them. After all they are living on top of them, it'd be impossible that they never saw a single sign of the Skaven until the rat-men assaulted them and took many of their holdings from them.


As for Graham McNeill and Nick Kyme. I like them, but I admit I can see why others do not, Kyme more so than McNeill.

McNeill wrote A Thousand Sons, for that alone he is awesome. But add to that Angel Exterminatus, Storm of Iron, Warriors of Ultramar and the Elven Duology and he just becomes beyond awesome. That said he's had his share of duds, Courage and Honour and The Outcast Dead, but I really do enjoy his work and look forward to all of his releases.

Kyme's Dwarfs are not for me but I don't like Dwarfs period. But I loved Kyme's Salamanders, his portrayal of Dark Eldar in Firedrake was sublime and I absolutely love the story of the Dragon Warriors that the trilogy weaves subtly in the background until Nocturne when most of it becomes clear, and the promise of more in the future is some of the best news i've had BL-wise. I also enjoyed Fall of Damnos but it needs a sequel to finish it off.


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post #26 of 94 (permalink) Old 11-19-12, 11:22 PM
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@ LotN

What do you think about Dan Abnett's style of writing with Legion, and Prospero Burns? I often look at your book reviews and I noticed you rated Prospero Burns lower than most Heresy Novels. Obviously you Know no Fear, was written differently, but besides that novel, do you rate books like Legion, or Horus Rising in the 8's along with Prospero?
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post #27 of 94 (permalink) Old 11-20-12, 04:50 AM Thread Starter
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also here the AL came as the drago of legions
Yes, ugh

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I do not like Swallow, the abyss book was ok, but what he did to the BA is unforgivable, I read one short story from Andy and that was already heaps better
Andy Smillie I presume...
Swallow absolutely butchers the BA. I don't know how he can manage to make them so...bland
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post #28 of 94 (permalink) Old 11-20-12, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Angel of Blood View Post
Can't believe so many people don't like Gaunts Ghosts. I rate it as probably one of the best series I've ever read, with Sabbat Martyr coming right up as one of the best books I've read.
Are you by chance also a fan of the Sharpe series?

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post #29 of 94 (permalink) Old 11-20-12, 09:42 AM
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@LotN; I beg to differ. As an in universe novel, Graham Mcneil falls terribly; according to you, his best pieces of work are ones which really bear no relevance to 40k or the WHF world; the stories are generic fantasy with the names of characters tied in so that he can sell his books and make a "fake" name for himself.

Praising Storm of Iron now is utterly wrong; trying to show how "different chaos is because different chaos chaos different" at that stage was new; but not well concieved or written. Characters were monofaceted and uninteresting, and his pacing was terrible. Warriors of Ultramar; same issues. We see men in power armour, not Space Marines but are excessively dull and again, boring. He is also the one we are to blame for the suggestion that every special character in the Ultramariones has to be one who bucks the Codex - Idaeus, Himself, and Sicarius to name but a few.

His Thousand Sons expresses their "magic"; big flashy hollywood shit. Not at all like the dark, brutal, insidiousness nature of Psychic powers. Ignore the "hairography" (yes ive been watching glee, blame the missus), and you get to yet again, a poorly timed, uninteresting selection of characters whose only difference is their name.

Lets not get into Angel Exterminatus; I rate it as poorly as Battle for the Abyss, and should be retitled to "How I once again fucked up the Emperors Children into moronic twats mk3 and Storm of Iron characters, an inane and boring monofaceted biography".

His one true success is The Ambassador novels; in particular the first; the second was a little daft, but it worked because we had no other information about Kislev at the time other than Gotrek and Felix in Praag or Riders of the Dead. The latter is superior by far, personally, but it is not exactly dealing with the same situation; it was almost as good as Rennie's Zavant, but as an airport book it almost works as a generic fantasy "whodunnit", but again, it has very minor correlation ans ties with current fluff.

As for the Proto Skaven; no, Skavenblight/Kazvar wasn't even occupied by Humans or Dwarves by the time of the occurence (-2005), for another 5 years at least. It would then be 200 years before it was overrun by "large rats" (note not man like rats) after the meteor. Plus, his writing makes me want to bounce his head off a wall. While his characters have a bit of character, he can't write for shit.



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post #30 of 94 (permalink) Old 11-20-12, 05:45 PM
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@ LotN

What do you think about Dan Abnett's style of writing with Legion, and Prospero Burns? I often look at your book reviews and I noticed you rated Prospero Burns lower than most Heresy Novels. Obviously you Know no Fear, was written differently, but besides that novel, do you rate books like Legion, or Horus Rising in the 8's along with Prospero?
Ok first off my opinion of Legion is that it is NOT an Alpha Legion novel. It is an Imperial Army novel with the Alpha Legion playing a guest starring role. It does not show off much of their black ops skills and is more about revealing why they sided with Horus rather than exploring them as an Astartes Legion, which I admit is important but still we need more about them. I was more impressed by their portrayal in Deliverance Lost, now the Alpha Legion impressed me in that book. I went in thinking "It's not possible to infiltrate an Astartes Legion." Man I was wrong. The Alpha Legion felt very distinct in DL, the kind of Legion that you should fear because you'll never be able to predict what they will do and how they'll beat you.

Personally I think Abnett does not like writing Space Marines, or he vastly prefers to write Guard and Inquisitor stuff. Know No Fear was fantastic, but Prospero Burns and Legion both don't feel like what we were told we would get. Legion is an Imperial Army novel and Prospero Burns is a mystery novel featuring the Space Wolves. I've changed, and improved, my ranking system since I read them but i'd say that Legion and Prospero Burns would now get anywhere from 7 to 7.5. Which to me is enjoyable but not standout and certainly not up to the standard that BL has been giving us in recent months.

Horus Rising would be somewhere around 7.5 to 8.

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Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
@LotN; I beg to differ. As an in universe novel, Graham Mcneil falls terribly; according to you, his best pieces of work are ones which really bear no relevance to 40k or the WHF world; the stories are generic fantasy with the names of characters tied in so that he can sell his books and make a "fake" name for himself.
I've read generic fantasy. McNeill is leagues above it.

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His Thousand Sons expresses their "magic"; big flashy hollywood shit. Not at all like the dark, brutal, insidiousness nature of Psychic powers. Ignore the "hairography" (yes ive been watching glee, blame the missus), and you get to yet again, a poorly timed, uninteresting selection of characters whose only difference is their name.
Of course its flashy, it's meant to be. The Thousand Sons go to war with magic swirling around them in gases and currents of indescribable colour with swords made of incandescent flame and bolters that spew pure energy that can cut through armor and strike the soul and lightning crackling across theri armor that is carved to resemble statues and daemons. It's going to be very flashy and very big. But the Thousand Sons at that point have not delved into sorcery and the dark side of it has not yet emerged, thus their magic can appear somewhat wholesome. But when Magnus fights Russ the true face of their powers shows itself and you can see that the powers they'll be using later are going to be very different to what they've used before.

As for the characters, it's your opinion. But I enjoyed Ahriman immensely, no other fictional character has stirred such hate in me that Ohthere Wyrdmake did, and Magnus was a fascinating character whose motives were not only understandable but sympathetic.

Oh and quick tip for you and your wife regarding Glee. Watch Season 1, and then unless you like Public Service Announcements stop watching immediately and never put it on again.

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Lets not get into Angel Exterminatus; I rate it as poorly as Battle for the Abyss, and should be retitled to "How I once again fucked up the Emperors Children into moronic twats mk3 and Storm of Iron characters, an inane and boring monofaceted biography".
I have no idea how you can even bring yourself to type that. My brain would cut off circulation before it would allow that to be typed by my hand.

Angel Exterminatus was great and once again illuminated a lesser-known Primarch and made the reasons clear as to why the Iron Warriors joined Horus. And the Emperor's Children were an absolute delight and the final part with Fulgrim was shocking, and has me eagerly awaiting the moment when the other Traitor Primarchs meet him again and can see what has become of him.

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His one true success is The Ambassador novels; in particular the first; the second was a little daft, but it worked because we had no other information about Kislev at the time other than Gotrek and Felix in Praag or Riders of the Dead. The latter is superior by far, personally, but it is not exactly dealing with the same situation; it was almost as good as Rennie's Zavant, but as an airport book it almost works as a generic fantasy "whodunnit", but again, it has very minor correlation ans ties with current fluff.
I have heard of these novels twice. Both from you. Other then that, never heard of them and I don't care for Kislev so not really interesting in picking up a duology about it.


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Last edited by Lord of the Night; 11-20-12 at 05:53 PM.
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