"Betrayer" - A Review - Page 2 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-15-13, 09:07 PM
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Default Imperator...

***SPOILERS***


I liked this book, but the way that Guilliman got his butt handed to him at every turn was absurd. I mean, I don't know the whole story of this Captain Lotara (is there more to it?) but she should not have been able to outsmart a primarch in a "thinker's war" (the void battle.) Especially when said primarch is a tactical genius. I was prepared to overlook that but then the entire episode with the Corinthian (Imperator Titan... The same type that survived the exterminatus of isstvan 3!) had me literally scoffing at my iPad. I mean, come ON! Even if you take into account the supporting forces that were destroyed in orbit, could they not have set this priceless war machine down a little further back from the action so that it could "power up" before being accosted by mere war hounds? Especially when it appears to travel a kilometer per stride... Also, would the princeps not have had a plan for dealing with the Ursus claws? They weren't a secret by any means. Perhaps my thinking is flawed, but aren't Imperators extremely hard to come by?

Anyways, you could say I'm a but sour from reading non-stop traitor victories (although I know the books are necessary, and I do enjoy them!) I look forward to someone on the loyalist side actually inflicting some lasting damage to these heretics! ;)
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-16-13, 12:35 AM
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When does Guilliman get outsmarted?

Can you explain the Lotara void battle scene? It's been a while since Iv'e read the book.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-16-13, 02:14 AM
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Default Void battle

***SPOILERS***


Well it is open to everyone's opinion, but to me Guilliman should have been able to out-smart Lotara and get his forces down to the planet largely intact. My reason for saying this is when she surmises “If she had been leading that enemy fleet, she knew how she’d roll the dice in this fight. The Ultramarines victory counted on two factors.” 1 is killing the traitor ships, 2 is landing troops.
How is it that Guilliman accomplishes neither of these to any large degree of success? I suppose when you get right down to it, i dont believe she - a basic human - should be able to outsmart astartes and a primarch.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-16-13, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MolsonSS View Post
***SPOILERS***


Well it is open to everyone's opinion, but to me Guilliman should have been able to out-smart Lotara and get his forces down to the planet largely intact. My reason for saying this is when she surmises “If she had been leading that enemy fleet, she knew how she’d roll the dice in this fight. The Ultramarines victory counted on two factors.” 1 is killing the traitor ships, 2 is landing troops.
How is it that Guilliman accomplishes neither of these to any large degree of success? I suppose when you get right down to it, i dont believe she - a basic human - should be able to outsmart astartes and a primarch.
I gotto agree with you here. The only think I don't like about this book is that ADB is kinda forcing this Lotara character down our throats.

NO ONE except a primarch simply fires a laspistol to a World Eater CAPTAIN's FACE and walks away, whatever the reason, or whoever's fault it may be. She did it and trash talked him as well. It's just ridiculous.

And then there's the whole thing about the combat above Nuceria. I mean c'mon, yeah she is supposed to be a good ship aptain, but this is just going overboard.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-16-13, 06:57 PM
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Can you post a few words from the exact scene where Lotara outsmarts Guilli? I want to ctrl + f it on my kindle.
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-16-13, 07:09 PM
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Starting roughly at the end of chapter 19, through to the end. It isn't a direct confrontation between them per se, but more the end result that I refer to. Perhaps ADB is setting Lotara up for a bigger role in the future (and I suppose you could claim the same about the Imperator...) but it still seems absurd.
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-16-13, 10:25 PM
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Well, a primarch is supposed to be a formidable strategist and tactician, able to snatch victory from almost certain defeat. But he's not supposed to win every battle, every time. Sometimes, a primarch simply doesn't have enough assets to work with in order to actually win. This seems to be the case for Guilliman's situation here. Sure, Lotarra wins the void battle, but keep in mind that Lorgar had been staging the whole war. He's probably not as good as Guilliman at this game, granted, but he is still a primarch, and should probably be at least in the same league. Besides, he has an advantage over his brother, in that the loyalists don't really know what his agenda is. In fact, they're not even aware just how many laws of the Universe Lorgar can break to fulfill that agenda...
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-01-13, 12:47 PM
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As negative point, I found the Kharn portrayal a bit underwhelming.

Sometimes I felt I was reading that famous 4chan fan-fiction... the part about the missing chain-axe teeth really cracked me up.
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-02-13, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupe View Post
Well, a primarch is supposed to be a formidable strategist and tactician, able to snatch victory from almost certain defeat. But he's not supposed to win every battle, every time. Sometimes, a primarch simply doesn't have enough assets to work with in order to actually win. This seems to be the case for Guilliman's situation here.
On a related note, I just realized something. Didn't Angron make a point to RG that he always had what he needed in order to win and that's why he was able to conquer his world?

Finished: Too Much Love Will Kill You (working title), an original fiction novel. Working on: Second draft of Too Much Love, and the first draft of A Winter's Tale (working title).
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-02-13, 08:24 PM
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Succinctly: I found it too samey to, and therefore too soon after, AE. Even without this, it didn't wow me. The Primarch bits were enjoyable, but they made everything else a bit of a chore to get through, and what I found interesting was more to do with the HH arc as a whole or the 40k setting, rather than the plot of the book.

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