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Stormcast and Space Marines - What Makes Them Differ?

15K views 45 replies 19 participants last post by  MidnightSun 
#1 ·
After seeing all the flaming on the net about the Sigmarines, I have decided to collate information together to show that while the Stormcast Eternals do share some similar features to the Space Marines, they are actually quite different. So let us begin;


Firstly we'll look at background. A Space Marine, no matter his Chapter of origin, will have mostly the same backstory. Born on a Feral/Death/Hive/etc world, chosen for the Chapter by either genetic selection, trials to find the most worthy, or some other method and is uplifted to become a Space Marine. He is always and invariably a pre-teen male human child, because that is the only option to create a Space Marine due to the Primarchs themselves being male and the xenophobic attitude of the Imperium. Though the minute details will differ, and do produce wildly different results, ultimately each Space Marine shares a similar background to every other Space Marine in existence.

The Stormcast on the other hand have much different origins. For starters they are not limited to one gender, both male and female warriors can be elevated to become Stormcast. That alone creates a great deal of variety in that the Stormcast themselves seem to identify as male, but if some of them were originally female, how would that affect the personalities they create or are created for them during their Forging? Would it change how other Stormcast view them? Would their female personalities be subsumed or would they actually retain knowledge that they were once women? Next, they are not limited to a single race. When Sigmar uplifted those that would become the first Stormcast, he didn't limit himself to his own race. Heroes from the Aelfs, both Higborn (Asur) and Exiles (Druchii) and even Wanderers (Wood), Duardin (Dwarves), and even the Orruks (Orcs) were chosen and elevated. So underneath that Stormcast armour there could actually be the soul of a Dark Aelf or an Orc, perhaps even a Vampire or a Giant; what could that mean to a Stormcast? Would they retain memories of what race they used to be? And if they do how could a Dark Aelf, admittedly one that was a hero against Chaos, fit into an army based around honour and loyalty? Could there be a divide between the human and non-human Stormcast, or does their diversity make them stronger?

Another differing aspect of background is that where Space Marines are uniformally children, Stormcast could have been any age. Some might have been children that showed heroism, but the majority would have been adults with fully formed personalities. One reason that Space Marines show such stilted personalities in comparison to mortals is that they are changed before their personalities can develop fully, whereas a Stormcast already has a full personality. I am not sure at the moment if each Stormcast has full access to the memories of his/her previous life, some might do and some may not, but each Stormcast would have a full range of emotion and understanding that a Space Marine would lack because they had time to actually develop these personality aspects before their Ascension.


Next we look at death. When a Space Marine dies, he dies period. He ain't coming back. Stormcast on the other hand can and will come back. When a Stormcast is slain they are sent back to Sigmaron and reforged until they can fight again, similar to Chaos Daemons. However this comes with a price, every time a Stormcast is reforged they lose a piece of their personality. Eventually this builds up and the Stormcast is left an automaton that has no thought beyond fighting and dying again and again against the hordes of Chaos until either total victory or defeat. This means that unlike the Space Marines each Stormcast is, or will be, ancient as they amass centuries of warfare with no end in sight. When a Space Marine dies his experience is lost, but a Stormcast can come back and keep fighting. But the build up of fracturing in personality means that each Stormcast will differ not just in personality but capability of thought as well, some may be far along this spectrum and be little more than robots, while some may not have died at all and have their full range of memory and personality. This means that the Stormcast will have a wider range of personality to each character that sets them apart from the Space Marines.

More to come as more information is released.


LotN
 
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#4 ·
That's just for the rules. The lore does state that other races were used in the creation of the Stormcast.


LotN
 
#5 ·
What makes them similar to Space Marines? They're in heavy armour (which resembles the Chaos Armour on the plastic Chaos Lord far more than it resembles any Space Marine), they're not regular humans (but not genetically enhanced, more divinely empowered), they fight Chaos (but appear to be religious, whereas most Space Marines are not).

A good write-up and summary of the lore though, thanks :victory:
 
#6 ·
They are not similar to Space Marines at all because they are Lightning warriors, Not thunder warriors so cannot possibly be along that design ethos, their power armour with massive pauldrons and lightning symbology is like nothing of the Space Marines, they wear Death Masks, NOT skull masks, (except that one NOT Chaplain dude because Notspace marine so hes not a chaplain).

Thunder hammers? Nah, don't be daft, they are lightning hammers completely different. And they don't just strike from the heavens like a Thunderbolt, they literally come from a Thunderbolt. Yes, their not drop pods are thunderbolts.

As for having personalities, they are still written to be one dimensional charictatures except when it suits (a bit like Space Marines).

If they werent space marines, a greater effort would/should have been taken to seperate them in aesthetics and fluff than reborn/reforged 'heroes' given ultra powerful weapons and armour operating in a similar manner to the greatest part of the IP.

It is like stating that orruks and Orks are completely different. They are and they're not. In fantasy, the Daemon crossover made 'sense'. They were unashamedly the same. Here is is a half baked cop off. And smells funky.



 
#7 ·
For someone who claims all the new Age of Sigmar stuff is stupid and dont like it at all there is one thing I dont understand? Why come here all the time and just spread negativity..?? If you dont like it, fine thats your call, but please stop all of this bashing, it does no one any good and you just come of even more whiny then you already do and it is getting really tiresome....
 
#9 ·
Personally, guys in gold armour with a lightning fetish who arrive via what from the artwork is a carbon copy of the Bifrost and live in Azyrheim who fight to police the 9 Realms (8 winds + Chaos) screams 'Shit, we didn't get the rights to make a Marvel Universe wargame and join that gigantic money maker of a franchise, better make a totally-not Thor wargame' than 'Space Marines'.
 
#10 ·
#16 ·
Here's how I think it breaks down. Are Stormcast Eternals the same as Space Marines? No. Are they similar? Certainly. The real question though is, why is that a problem? So GW took inspiration from the most popular 40k army to try to invigorate Age of Sigmar. That just makes good business sense. The people who are complaining it are probably the same people who complain that GW don't do market research too.

But here's the thing. 40k and Fantasy have always had equivalent armies. Eldar/High Elves, Dark Eldar/Dark Elves, Necrons/Tomb Kings, Chaos Warriors/Chaos Marines, Orks/Orcs. I don't remember people complaining about the obvious similarities in any of these.

I like Space Marines. I like Stormcast Eternals. If you don't like Space Marines, you probably won't like Stormcast Eternals. The fortunate thing for you is that you have the choice of a bunch of other armies to choose from.
 
#18 ·
But here's the thing. 40k and Fantasy have always had equivalent armies. Eldar/High Elves, Dark Eldar/Dark Elves, Necrons/Tomb Kings, Chaos Warriors/Chaos Marines, Orks/Orcs. I don't remember people complaining about the obvious similarities in any of these.
Exactly my point. Both the Space Marine and Stormcast are supersoldiers made solely for war, they are each other's equivalent in the other game. Does that mean they are the same thing? No. It's the detail that matter, as always, and they say to me that the Stormcast and the Space Marines are quite distinct from each other.


LotN
 
#22 ·
I hope that the introduction of the Stormcast leads to the Celestial Lions being reborn from the ashes of Armageddon and brought back to being a chapter again!
 
#28 ·
Ok, well by that rationale there are only two races in Fantasy that aren't rip-offs of 40k then. Lizardmen and Skaven. So does that mean that the Tomb Kings, which have a hell of a lot in common with the Necrons, are as pointless as the Stormcast as their detractors seem to think? Or that the High Elves, which by this logic would just be Eldar without any advanced technology, are pointless copies of their space-bound counterparts?

The small details matter. Both in fiction and life.

The fluff sounds like something that your kid wrote on take your child to work day.

Nope. This game is done, and this company is gettimg NOTHING more from me.
I don't see that. I really don't see what makes the Fantasy lore, which was good, any better or worse than the Age of Sigmar lore, which is also good.

I'm sure they'll survive the loss.


LotN
 
#24 ·
Absolutely, the concept is virtually identical. So why are people getting so worked up about it? Why does it matter?
It shouldn't really matter at all. Unless someone is looking for a way to disparage a product that they don't like, and are trying to use it as evidence of some kind of flaw in the game/ business model/ aesthetic preferences of other people.
 
#25 ·
you don't play, you don't understand, you don't have any impact of the game, who are you to complain about other people complaining about what happened to the game they have played for 15years?

The game looks like it has taken the worst bits of 40k and warcraft amd melded them together. The fluff sounds like something that your kid wrote on take your child to work day.

Maybe it is me that is just angry that it has taken Age of sigmar to make me realise that I am playing a game for children. Whereas in the past I could fool myself with the gorgeous models, I am now bbarded with parody after parody of Lasers and space marines eagled with flying chariots...

Nope. This game is done, and this company is gettimg NOTHING more from me.



 
#27 ·
People dont like AoS
Why?
because many reasons but sigmarines mainly
but sigmarines are awesome why don't people like them?
because space marine knock offs
but space marines are awesome must be instant win how come your opinion is exactly the opposite of GW's 'logic'?
Because its not warhammer
but they are in age of sigmar why dont you like them?

Thats pretty much how this conversation is. If I wanted to play Space Marines I'd play 40k. If I wanted some retarded inbred leper baby crossed with 40k, fantasy, the worst bits of warcraft and then pushed in my face and it felt like I had to deep throat it like an engorged clit with the attitudes of some people and the website itself, I would be gagging and spitting and giving that bad boy chode the full roman shower.

But I don't. Is it notable that there weren't threads like this when LotR was released? Is it notable that this pissed off attitude is pretty similar to what happened when Specialist games were killed off, so no epic, mordheim, etc? I think the answer to both is yes, and that it is also notable that this AoS boxset, meant to be the start of GW anew and revatilase the conpany has barely shifted it from where its stocks were prior to release. For all the good it has done so far (considering it is a brand new game amd the resources dumped into it) it might as well have not existed.

It is still early days, but I wonder how happy the boardmeeting will be later on when they see a shift in stocks of only 1p for every £.

As for yourselves, are you helping GW out any? Are you buying more GW than you did before? Will your annual spend increase because of GW producing this new game? Keep your 40k 'commitments' with the addition of your new AoS? If not, then again, it does GW no benefit.

So what was the point in fucking off almost universally the entire warhammer fantasy fambase? End Times started off decent, encouraging the use of the Tonka toys that you otherwise lacked points for, but then come book 3 it got retarded again. And steadily worse to the state that people didn't really care that Skaven got even more stupidly broken.

The fanbase locally goes befween 'eh', don't care, selling their stuff and just anger. There have been precisely three sales of AoS in the local GW, all by curious fantasy players to see if it as bad as the rumours said. No one is excited by the prospect, apart from some who are taking absolute delight in this game perfoming an epic suicide.



 
#30 ·
While I dont speak for the vast majority of whf fans, the number of people who are doing the same are pretty indicative of what is to come when the initial interest of 'its a new game' drops.



 
#31 ·
In Boston, there has been a surge of interest, and sales both of the box set, and of fantasy in general.
I've actually started a chaos army because of this. I can use the daemons to ally with my Orks in 40k when summoned, as well as for AoS in their own right. If it hadn't been for AoS, I probably wouldn't have bought those items with the intention of starting another army, not yet anyway.
I had looked at WHFB, but whilst there were a handful of regulars who played, there wasn't enough interest to justify the expense and effort of building a dedicated army. If it wasn't exactly dead, it was on life support, even in the local games club.

Anyway, all that said, it seems that the only reason that there is a problem with the similarity between SM's and Sigmarites is because it is perceived to be symptomatic of the problem with GW.
I don't know about that, except that locally, in the upcoming AoS tournament being organised in the Boston GW store, order accounts for a fraction of the armies being played. Chaos is the overwhelmingly preferred faction, followed by Destruction.
 
#32 ·
Tournament rules? Do you play Core rules only? Or do you houserule? I.e, can I bring my old 8000pt army against your 20 wounds or whatever?

It still doesn't make a difference to GW if you spend £120 on Orks or AoS, unless you spend both £240 total on Orks AND AoS. That would justify it.



 
#33 ·
The manager is organising it and he briefly explained the rules to me. The warlord is a non-named character, you must have 2 troops and there are restrictions on artillery cavalry and monsters but I can't remember exactly what they were. It should be interesting to see how it goes.
 
#37 ·
#39 ·
Heh. I'll buy "crossbolter."
 
#40 ·
I'm painting my stormcast eternals as Ultramarines. And you know what? I'm having a blast with it. Age of Sigmar is a ton of fun, and I can just go "GROUND MAHRINES, CHARGE!" We've been playing the shit out of it, and at the store, we all just shrugged and went, "You know what? This is awesome, having not Space Marine paladin-y guys who are clearly Space Marines." It's about fun, and if you don't believe Age of Sigmar is about being ridiculous and fun, go look at the Orc warscrolls and tell me you still don't think so.
 
#41 ·
I'll admit that AoS is incredibly simple compared to WFB. However, its that simplicity which has actually been a benefit for some of the people I hang around with. Originally we all bought one battalion per person and half-assed painted them and then sat down to play. We never got past a couple of turns because, admittedly, the vast rulebook of WFB typically had us disagreeing on certain points (mainly to due with the stats during attacks). Yea we're probably not very intelligent nerds but alas the lore griped us and we gave it our best shot. The minis have been sitting in my closet for at least a year, if not 2 or 3. I can't honestly remember.

All of us work typically crazy hours so when we did get together we didn't have the time to sit down and really learn the game. AoS has made it incredibly simple. I actually played my first ever Warhammer game (40k or Fantasy) all the way to the end with a friend. Then played another 2 games. The first couple were messes but the simplified rules meant we could get into it easier and enjoy ourselves more.

Yea, I can see why people don't like the lore (which I'm having trouble making sense of myself) or the fact that 25 years of core-lore was kind of whitewashed out of the game, but meh -- WFB never had the following 40k did. At least not in the people I talked to.

As for the Stormcast Eternals, I don't really care. I kicked their ass with my Khorne Bloodbound and my Wretched Host (first time I ever got to play them). My only annoying thing with AoS is the lore could have stood to be a little darker -- but that could just be the 40k fanboy in me.
 
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