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post #14 of (permalink) Old 11-07-10, 12:50 AM
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Originally Posted by MuSigma View Post
Before the HH series it was easy to judge the fallen Primarchs and their Legions as inherently currupt and willing to fall to chaos. Now Im not sure. As we get more insight into the Primarchs like Lorgar and Magnus and Alpharius they dont seem to be mindless savages driven mad by war and bloodshed.

Therefore using what is being written now in the HH series can that be projected into the 40k arena.

Ok ill come out with it instead of beating about the bush, I want to see regret. I want to see one of the chaos primarchs retain some of the virtues they had prior to the fall. I want to see Magnus working on a way to free his legion from chaos in secret - to hate the chaos gods and work tirelessly to still overcome them, to be beyond his hatred for Russ (who he keeps in a cage by his throne). To seek redemption in some way, to deeply regret becoming a pawn of the dark gods and to still be able to grow in knowledge and power to help mankind over throw them.
well put MuSigma, well put indeed. i think each of the fallen primarchs as we have seen so far have thier tragedy and here's my opinion.

Horus already felt betrayed by his father, believing that his father had turned his back not only on the brothers but on him, by not confiding in him the reason for his returning to terra and leaving the running of the imperium in the hands of tax collectors and the like, and the burden of running the great crusade on his shoulders as he was the warmaster. That led to his fall, chaos (with a little help from Erebus) managed to tap into this and fuel his - i suppose the word would be abandonment at the hands of his father, fuel this into making him believe that his father wanted to attain divinity, something that Horus and the other leigons have exterminated worlds and races for when his father has decreed that there shall be no gods.

Fulgrim, guess thats easy enough, they say a pride comes before a fall, however Fulgrim seemed to me to always be looking to Horus and Sanguinus, the two eldest(?) for aceptance that what he and his sons were doing were right. when he was told that a man he idolsied and hero worshiped, a man who's very name was the name of his own leigon and who had allowed only them to bear his standard on thier armour must have been a blow, not just to his pride but to how he saw the universe, and he was already under the sway increassngly of the demon that possessed the sword so when he killed Ferrus and came out of his somewhat strange fog, saw that he had killed the one brother that he shared a close bond with perhapes closer then Horus, he gave the demon the doorway he wanted, by saying he wanted to end it all he gave the demon of Slaanesh everything he wanted, a primarchs body that he could mold to whatever he wanted and a legion that he could pervert.

Lorgar was like all that had his faith questioned then betrayed, his father had allowed him to crusade for two hundred years or so and build temples in his name and worlds that worshipped him as a god only to be humilated not just before his own sons, but his brother and his brothers leigon.
like all those of a strong faith Lorgar sought answers from elsewhere and those answers came in the form of chaos and thus the downfall of his legion in that they found a new faith. This can happen when everything you believe in is suddenly shaken to the core in a cold and heartless way, i think i posted on another thread that had Gulliman been a brother to him then he would have asked his father and the Sigilite to take the matter somewhere private and not destroy a world that whilst in worship of the Emperor and his son Lorgar was basically an ideal world for the Imperium. Kor Phaeron and Erebus were also steering a Primarch who was not a warrior but a man of faith and a peacemaker, of philosophy into damnation and in his blind faith that is what he became...blind to the demands of Chaos and tricked by their words that he and he alone was the first son of Chaos, to a man of such deep religous virtues as Lorgar that is like giing him the keys to paradise.

Angron...i am not too sure about as he has been seen only intermidantly but i would feel for Angron because as a man of honour he felt his father had betrayed him, by teleporting him away from those he considered his brothers and sisters, his former gladiator family and leaving them to die what i have no doubt is a horrible death he was made to feel like a coward.
something no one can actually call one such as Angron. It took Kharn to have the balls enough to prove to him that he was worthy and Angron took a great deal of pride in his sons, although he used cybernetic implants to try and enhance thier rage or something please correct me if i am wrong. Angron could never trust the emperor again after being taken from those he called family who he had fought alongside and bled alongside, to him the Emperor had no honour and for such a driven man to whom honour was everything it was easy to turn to someting that in his eyes had honour.

Kurze, Kurze was plagued not only by visions all his life butvisions ofhis own death. The Empeor said he wold help him but as time went on Kurze believed that all he had done, all the so called exaggerated ofences of the Night Lords were in excess, had been by his fathers command, his father had sent them in to deal with a world that would not tow the line as it were and nowhe was being penilised for doing what he had been ordered to do, add to that, when he confided in Fulgrim about his prophetic visons, Fulgrim betrayed him. His father had tried to kill him on numerous ocasions He was the only Primach, aside from Angron i susupect that had no family, no surrogate mother or father and so it came as no surprise to him that his bloodfamily was not accepting of him totally either but that did not say he did not try, he was doing as his father ordered, being a loyal son but in the end having a father turn round, order your assasination and condemn your sons was enough and Kurze reverted back to being what he had been on Nostramo Quintus, the night haunter a man that is truely alone who could never count on his fathers love.

Magnus i believe is perhapes the most tragic, in bringing a warning to his father of Horus and his ultimate betrayal, by trying to do the one thing he could to save his sons from the flesh change, is the reason why he fell. He brings a warning to his father who isn't interested in expliantions and who unleashes the Wolves and sets brother against brother and Magnus into the waiting arms of the weaver of fate. Leman wanted to destroy Magnus the hatred betwen them both was known so the emperor must have known that by unleashing the wolves there could be only one outcome and in this Magnus not only feels betrayed by those around him but also he feels a great guilt in what has befallen his sons, and that he and he alone is responsible for thier fate, betrayed by his father or not.

Alpharius i am unclear on except that he and his brother did what they did in service for the emperor whether that is still true today or not i have no idea.

Morarion i am not yet clear on except that he was betrayed by his own sons especailly Typhus, the Herald himself and that must be one heck of a bitter pill to swallow.

sorry for the ramble
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