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Old Marines

14K views 70 replies 32 participants last post by  Angel of Blood 
#1 ·
so I just realized this.

Space Marines aren't immortal and they do detiriate just at a much slower rate than normal humans so this leads me to my epiphany

when a Marine becomes so old that he hinders the army what happens to him? I would expect that after so many battles if a marine lives that long they would just hook em up to a dreadnaught

any other opinions?
 
#3 ·
:laugh: thats all I have to say but it won't let me post it for being under 10 characters so I decided to post this extensive sentence on it
 
#4 ·
i think most marines who reach a certain age will go on a final crusade or something like that, in the novel Angels of Darkness the apothecary is on about doing something like that as hes 600 yrs old(i think im remembering it rightly).
i think its also down to the custom of the chapter, one example i can think of is the novel Salamander, where one the marines(cant remember his name) leaves everything behind and goes on a journey in the wild lands of Nocturne.
I don't many old marines are interned just because of old age, i think that's reserved for certain hero's of the chapter.
 
#5 ·
well my thought was that to live the thousands of years needed for your body to detiriate, through all those campaigns and warriors they would become such a high rank and then enter the dread, but you're right about the apothecary and salamander I completely forgot about them

thanks for contributing :victory::eek:k:
 
#6 ·
Do Astartes really just deteriorate over time? From the HH novels the opinion of the Marines is that they are functionally immortal; where has this changed? I ask out of real curiosity, not trying to be snarky at all.
I know that the process of making a Marine has become debased and the true meaning lost to mindless repetition and ritual, at least for some Chapters, but has this been shown to reduce the life-expectancy from the HH-era Astartes?
I know that Dante is considered long-lived, an exception amongst even Astartes, but- actually, I'm rambling now. Could someone let me know the fluff-piece that says what life-span Marines can expect? Cheers.

GFP
 
#7 ·
All it really says in the marine codex is that most (or all) astartes will die on the battlefield or in space.

The HH series early books make several mentions of astartes supposedly being immortal, but there is a Luna wolf (Qruze?) who is an old terran marine and no longer takes active roles as often as he used to.

It seems to vary depending on source, possibly due to differences in chapters, or maybe just writer inconsistencies, but I don`t think there is a set lifespan for any given space marine. All we have for sure is that the BA seem to live longer, and the traitors in the EOT seem to live indefinitely.
 
#8 ·
I got to thinking, surely over the millennia Astartes have become more human- the geneseed they use has been filtered through hundreds of other Astartes, surely over time the inherent mortality of the humans that become Space Marines would result in some sort of deterioration of the geneseed.

Whereas the heresy era Marines would have had their geneseed almost directly from the font of their genetic lineage- their would be no deterioration.
 
#9 ·
Going off your theory there perhaps explains how the Blood Angels live so long? as they all get blood transfusions from the Sanguinary Priests who got transfusions from the ones before them etc leading to Sanguinius. Sure its been filtered down aswell but it's still gonna be a little more pure than the others
 
#10 ·
Well currently the oldest 'living' space marine is Comander Dante of the Blood Angels. He's comanded them for over 1100 years now given current fluff, so is much older then that, and he's still up and active.

I think most space marines will die in battle before they get too old and become a hinderance.

Bjorn the Fell-handed is the oldest still active Loyalist space marine,being over 10,000 years old now. But being a venerable dreadnaught, he has been known to have 1000year long sleeps.
 
#11 ·
Qurze was not inactive, He was still active captain of the third company of the luna wolves. And later possibly in the inquisition. Garro was of similar age. The gradual deteoriation of their legion geneseed has an effect but what that is I don't know.
 
#12 ·
It may not be Qruze I am thinking of. But I am sure there was an older marine who the others took less seriously because of his age.

Maybe Maloghurst? Fuck it, I can`t be bothered to check right now. I`ll do it later. Right now, I am going to sleep. :so_happy:
 
#16 ·
I think that for the most part, Marines can pretty much replace old organs, and useless parts with the technology they have. So at least for the most part, Marines can last. Though, some marines like that apothecary mentioned in Salamander sometimes get a little tired from some aspect of war. In the apothecaries case, he was pretty pissed that so many men, women, astartes had died and he was pretty sad he couldn't save them. He probably along with most of his company have regrets that in neither case of their captain dieing they could save them.
 
#22 ·
I'm not even sure if they are capable after being implanted. I know that in some of the SW books the young pups get all hot under the collar when there is a female around and i can't see why they would loose their junk as it's going to boost their testosterone levels but in very few books do the Astartes seem to have any interest in the fairer sex at all. Wether this is a psycho docrine that has been programmed into them or just that they are now too focussed on being the fist of the emporer, who can say.

I don't think they are allowed families...it would be a gross conflict of interest, imagine what would have happened at the battle of macragge if the Ultra's had been worried about the wife and kid whilst they were trying to hold the polar defences.
 
#20 · (Edited)
:shok::nono: God that brings up some horrible memories of some crappy fan fluff. They are basically warrior monks, for the most part. So no, they aren’t allowed to have families.
 
#24 ·
To add on to the previous reasons; marines can be away for centuries at a time, it would be impractical to have families given such a long deployment.
 
#27 ·
Jonas seemed to rely more on his psychic powers to fight. He did out-class the other librarians but that makes sense because as he grew older he would have gained more experience and his knowledge and control would have increased (can't remember properly but Im pretty sure that at one stage he even makes himself levitate for a bit.)
Physically, he was still in good shape. I remember at some stage a member of adeptus sororitas even remarks that he had more strength in one of his fingers than a normal man has in his entire upper body.
 
#28 ·
Id say they would probably return to the chapter to train scouts or to act as a kind of home guard. If a space marine was really old then i imagine he'd be the last left of his squad and putting him into another squad commanded by someone way younger than him would probably be insulting.
 
#29 ·
But does it happen? Like has been said Dante is well over 1,100 years old, much much older now and he's still one of the most able and active Marines in service, not showing any sign of slowing down or 'retiring' I know Blood Angels are said to have a greater longeviety than most, but even so
 
#30 ·
I don't think that the re-use of geneseed will have any type of 'filtering' through being used in multiple Astartes. Each Chapter has to send a tithe to the Mechanicus, so if any issues come up with the geneseed in general, or even a particular zygote, then it can be corrected; either it will be replaced completely from the stocks held in cryo-stasis, or thrown-out and a new geneseed/zygote will replace it. To my mind, any deterioration in the efficacy of the geneseed in creating Astartes is due to the process of implantation on initiation. This has become mindless reptition and the actual science of the process lost to ritual. In fact many of the rituals used will have a detrimental effect on the neophyte, meaning that the outcome will less than optimal. (I believe I read that in the IA on the process of making Marines.)
So, again to my view, geneseed-wise the 40k Astartes will be just as functionally immortal as their Great Crusade-era counterparts. Any differences will probably be slight and probably not noticed because most Astartes die in combat before any age-related issues become apparent. I would imagine that the issues with geneseed/zygote deterioration will be more pronounced in some Chapters- there will be those who don't really care about the science, they just want more Marines; there will be those whose Apothecaries will take a very great interest in what, and how, things are going on and so will have less problems, not needing the Mechanicus to keep re-supplying them with new or repaired geneseed.
As for older marines stepping out of combat roles. I could easily see this as being some sort of sabbatical. The fluff for Dante talks about how he is feeling the ennui of having lived so long, having seen everything and done everything, repeated hundreds or thousands of times. Even for biological weapons, Astartes still have something of their Humanity, and the sameness of combat will start to tell, dulling thier minds and making them bored. Once a Marine gets to a certain age they are probably made to take an extended break from their main role; maybe they go to teach the Scouts, maybe they step aside from leadership and allow someone new to be blooded, maybe they take on a research role in the Apothecarion or Librarius or Reclusiam, or even go on to a diplomatic role between other Chapters/Guard/Administratum or even go out with a Rogue Trader.

TL;DR I think that Astartes are still functionally immortal, except for those from Chapters whose implantation procedures have become debased; combat, however, will still be the primary (and hugely more common) cause of Astartes death. Old Marines will be made to change jobs regularly to keep them mentally fresh which would explain the fluff instances of Marines doing things other than being part of a Chapter's combat strength.

Phew, that was a long, rambling one!

GFP
 
#31 ·
Acutally, doesn't dante require some aid in getting around. If I remember correctly in the blood angel series, they seem to describe him wearing a non termitor suit that aids in his mobility and has hissing pistons to help his legs move. Kinda like braces for spaces marines.

Also, the oldest space marine is 10,000 years old as evidenced in the book salamander. Mind you, he wasn't going to enter a tap dancing competition any time soon, but he was alive (he couldn't walk and his muscles had atrophied).

Note: the atrophy could have more to do with being inactive for such a long time than with old age, but this begs the question why was there a need to hibernate at all? The only conclusion was that only through hibernation could he survive long enough to be rescued.
 
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