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post #26 of (permalink) Old 09-28-09, 12:10 AM
Bane of Empires
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Originally Posted by Sethis View Post
Power means nothing without control.

Magnus had no control. (See what happened to him?)

Ahriman had no control. (See what happened to the 1k Sons?)

Rogue Psykers have no control. (Being conduits, rather than self contained individuals)

Eldrad has control. (Of most of the galaxy )

Being able to destroy a planet at will is nothing compared to the power to alter the future so that an individual/race never existed. You would never have a "1v1 Psychic Duel" with Eldrad, because he would already have manipulated you into being possessed by Chaos/dying on another battlefield/being in another part of the galaxy.
What you on about?! Magnus and Ahriman do have control... Just because they practise Sorcery rather than more stable methods of psychic powers doesnt mean they have no control. In fact its known that Sorcery is much more potent and powerful than any other form of Psychic abilites.

Aside from that Magnus is a Daemon Prince of Tzeentch. Tzeentch is the Lord of Fate, Puppet Master of the Galaxy, the Great Schemer. Tzeentch's Oracle knows the Future and Tzeentch himself Knows ALL of the Past and Present and all of the possible Futures. Magnus is one of Tzeentch's most powerful disciples... he outranks Eldrad by miles.

Read the Eye of Terror Codex aswell.. under "War in the Webway" - its clear that Eldrad greatly fears Ahriman as a Psyker.

And also aside from that Eldrad is now 'dead'... so

And also I think you over-estimate his abilities to an extent. Yes he is a fantastic Farseer, and has saved his race and averted disaster countless times. But he cannot see or know all of the possible futures, his abilities in Farseeing arn't certain, infact no way near it. I mean if Tzeentch himself cannot know ALL possible futures, then for certain Eldrad, a mere Eldar can't.

Originally Posted by Sethis View Post

As a by-the-way, no-one we have ever heard of has faced Eldrad in a direct confrontation.
Abaddon has.

Originally Posted by Sethis View Post
"Also yea he started the war of Armaggedon but is it really that hard to trick a ork into attacking a world ?"

Name anyone else who has ever managed it?
Just because no one has in the Fluff doesn't mean it hasn't happened. In fact its common knowledge that Orks are easily manipulated. The Chaos Forces used Orks in the 13th Black Crusade to attack Imperial positions simply by bribing them with weaponary.... Its not hard to trick an Ork!

Originally Posted by Sethis View Post
Well Magnus couldn't see his own future well enough to change it (he failed to stop the Horus Heresy, and became a demon prince, and was unable to save Prospero) and the only major spell Ahriman cast went catastrophically wrong, with totally unintended effects. Sounds a bit poor to me.
Oh dear... - Tzeentch himself prevented Magnus from seeing his own future in order to gain Magnus as a pawn. Also you say 'Became a Daemon Prince' as if thats a bad thing.. If anything becoming a Daemon Prince of Tzeentch has just increased his psychic abilites several times over.

Originally Posted by Prince Endymion View Post
I would definately rank all for Chaos Gods as below the Emperor in psychic might, collectively. I personally don't think its far fetched to say that they may rank below even the primarchs, but more likely, they are probably equal on many levels, and due to the primarchs weaknesses, thay are able to control or manipulate them.
I couldn't disagree more

It is said that the Emperor's existence is one of constant agony (and has been for 10,000 years) as he struggles to hold back the tide of Chaos. A task which he is slowly but surely failing in. With every passing generation, as humanity slowly evolves to its 'Psychic Potential' the threat of Chaos grows ever stronger. More Psykers appear every generation, Humanities impact on the warp grows and more and more humans fall to Chaos Worship.

If you havn't done so already check the Chaos Daemons Codex out. To my knowledge the best and largest source of information on the Chaos Gods. It portrays the Emperor as a mere nuisance to the Warp Gods - one of several occasions when the Chaos Gods stop warring amongst themselves to thwart an annoyance. The Chaos Gods merely by whispering to Horus started the wars of the Horus Heresy and shattered the Emperors Body and his Imperium. As soon as Horus was damned they simply began warring amongst themselves again, and the Great Game continued.

The Emperor's Will is the only thing that is preventing Chaos from completley consuming the galaxy - and the Warp and the Material Plane intermingling.

Originally Posted by Khorne's Fist View Post
Of the humans, it is well established fluff that Malcador was second in strength only to the Emperor, quite a ways ahead of Magnus.
Has it ever actually stated this anywhere though? A way in my opinion to compare the abilities of Magnus and Malcador is to look at the Golden Throne. The Emperor intended to sit Magnus on the Golden Throne to seal the Imperial Webway Gate, after the Red Cyclops' Sorcerous warning broke the complex seals on the Psychic Runes surrounding the Golden Throne. After Magnus pledged himself to Tzeentch following the Burning of Prospero this was no longer possible - so the Emperor had to settle to temporarily task Malcador with taking to the Golden Throne even though he knew Malcador would perish. The fact that the Emperor intended to initially have Magnus the Red take to the Golden Throne in my opinion proves that Magnus' ability were more potent than Malcadors.

Originally Posted by cegorach View Post
I do love how we don't even need CotE to comment anymore, chances are he has already said something intelligent before that can be re-applied to the current situation.
Heresy's Background FAQ. (Fluff Project)
CotE Reviews: Prospero Burns (HH Review), Age of Darkness (HH Review).

Last edited by Child-of-the-Emperor; 09-28-09 at 12:42 AM.
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