Eldar Prism Tanks - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
40k Tactics Discuss the art of war in the 41st millenium. Exceptional topics will be stickied.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-27-06, 06:41 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 26
Default Eldar Prism Tanks

The prism tanks used to be so so, but with the new codex and the dispersed shot they are very powerful and now a must have in the eldar army. But, when people talk about the new bank shot where you can link two fire prism shots together to raise the strength by one and lower to AP by one people dont seem to like it. Why is that? If youre going agiainst marines a twin-linked str 6 AP 3 large blast could come in very handy, even though it does take away shot.

In my experience i find it very useful, but it seems that most other donjt feel that way, and i dont know why.
DireAvenger is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-27-06, 08:41 PM
Senior Member
 
jigplums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,602
Reputation: 5
Default

Toys for the Boys Ė The fireprism

The New eldar codex has seen many changes, some reasonably subtle whilst others have been more drastic. Many of the veteran eldar players will be rejoicing that those shelved units, like the swooping hawks, shining spears and jetbikes amongst others have been given a new lease of life.
The next must use toy for eldar commanders is the fireprism, that with its recent boosts its become a much more appealing HS choice. It was always an appealing model, but was outshone on the battlefield by the other eldar heavy supports, in the main being wraithlords and its nearest competitor the falcon. So what makes the prism worth taking now, and what role can it serve it your eldar army.

Reliability. Having a BS of 4 may seem like a minor thing, but it can make a huge difference over the course of a game of 40k, especially when it concerns a one shot weapon like the prism cannon. In fact I have found when talking to many eldar generals that played ultwe under the old codex that what attracted them to the ultwe army at first was not the powerful seer council, but the extra bs for its compulsory guardians. Also the wraithlord has always been a popular choice for mounting Anti-tank weapons for the very same reason. The prism also has another brucie bonus up its sleeve. When two prisms combine fire into a more powerful shot, its shot counts as twin-linked. When you invest a lot of points into a unit, its nice when it can reliably perform the roll you have it earmarked for. The fireprism ticks this box.

Tank hunting. Imperials take there strength nine lascannons for granted, whilst tau with there str 10 railguns are known to laugh at enemies packing armoured units. Now at last eldar have an equivalent weapon. The prisms concentrated beam is a perfect compliment to elders other prime tank hunters, and allows ranged sniping of enemy armour with its massive range. The other bonus of the combo shot is that you can hide one tank whilst the other shoots, letting you narrow the amount of return fire your going to take.

Infantry kill: The dispersed shot is going to work wonders against hoards of orks, tyranids or Imperial guard and similar troops. When up close the Shuriken upgrade can finish off survivors, picking off those gaunts you rolled a one to wound, or just add weight of damage to especially big units. Again its enormous range is going to let you punish your opponent from afar with as little return fire as possible, always a bonus.

Marine KILL: When two prisms get together is when things get really interesting, and it doesnít get much more interesting then when facing marines and equivalents like necrons. When that banked shot lands on a nice big squad its really going to hurt your opponent, and its not unfeasible to wipe out an entire squad in one turn. Against drop-podding marines the prism is like money in the bank, and your opponent is going to have to think very very carefully about where he tries to land.

Survivability. When tricked out with a holo-field the Prism becomes one serious headache to remove. Spirit stones also ensures that when the prism does get rocked it can hide itself ready to pounce when its set to go again. The falcon is probably still slightly more survivable, due to its second heavy weapon. With the prism one weapon destroyed result is going to seriously hurt, leaving it with only its secondary weapon. But still it could be worse .

Range: The fire prism brings the only really long ranged weapon and eldar player has onto the battlefield. This gives great tactical options that arenít available any other way. Like Sniping the enemy in cleanse missions from right at the back of the board as one example. Or supporting the left flank of your army, from the other side of the battlefield in an advanced refused flank manoeuvre.

Versatility: The final and perhaps most important thing that the prism brings to the battlefield is versatility. The prism cannon is the eldarís assault cannon equivalent. If you need it to target tanks, it can do it well with its focused beam. If your facing hoards of troops its dispersed shot canít go far wrong. If you find yourself with an assault squad thatís proving hard to hit then a combined shot is your friend. Maybe you even need a bullet sponge to take the heat off whilst your waveserpents close in the fireprism can perform that task as well.

When alls said and done the Prism is a great heavy support choice, and you could do worse than including one[or three] in your eldar army. It they right circumstances they have the potential to be more devastating than any other eldar heavy support. There are certainly circumstances in which youíd want to use a different heavy support, but the choices sure got a lot harder to make, and if you have a spot for versatile machine capable of fulfilling any battlefield roll then you could go a lot worse than adding a fireprism into your arsenal.

Check out my gamer Blog
http://gamergeekery.blogspot.co.uk/2...rs-in-40k.html

Jezlad "I actually commented that Jigplums list was the least scary list I faced. Then took a pasting"
http://www.coolminiornot.com/artist/jigplums
http://www.coolminiornot.com/160095
jigplums is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-29-06, 12:46 PM
Member
 
Deadshane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 62
Reputation: 1
Default

If you find the Prism to be a "must buy", you should try out the scatterlaser armed WarWalker squadron when guided. Not only are they cheaper than the tricked out Prism but BETTER even against marines. (unless you play goofball marines that bunch up against your prism blasts)

The Heavy Support slot in the eldar codex has some VERY competetive units. With the exception of the weapons battery, nothing in HS sux. I dont really see that the prism is a "must buy". Good? Maybe. I dont like the idea of combining the shooting of two expensive HS selections to kill 5 marines with one shot per turn, which is probably a generous amount of kills assuming your opponent has the sense not to bunch up agaisnt them.

Prisms might have their uses and are by no means a worthless selection. I think there are more effective choices out there however. (personal opinion) As a rule in the game, I like to roll handfulls of dice against my opponent and reroll them. VERY intimidating when its str six. "Ok, thats 18 scatterlaser hits, and 15 wounded...Make 15 armour saves!"...more fun and reliable way to kill off 5 marines if you ask me.

"I'd much rather see you on my side than scattered into....atoms." Emperor Ming

www.40kwreckingcrew.aceboard.com
www.cityofhate-deadshane.blogspot.com
Deadshane is offline  
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-29-06, 07:30 PM
Senior Member
 
jigplums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,602
Reputation: 5
Default

its that the prism has the choice of combined shot that makes the difference. It can also target MC's, Termies, tanks, hoards etc... That unit of warwalkers can sure do some damage....once in the game and then they are very likely to be toasted in the return fire. Add in the fact that your using a farseer to guide them to make them that scary, and its even more points spent of that wet rag heavy support choice. The prism can move 12" and shoot. Is hard to kill, Can scoop objectives in the late game, and snipe across half the board to take out stuff that can't even shoot back.

Not saying that warwalkers aren't useable. But i think they are a lot less versatile then the prism is and no where near as tough

Check out my gamer Blog
http://gamergeekery.blogspot.co.uk/2...rs-in-40k.html

Jezlad "I actually commented that Jigplums list was the least scary list I faced. Then took a pasting"
http://www.coolminiornot.com/artist/jigplums
http://www.coolminiornot.com/160095
jigplums is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-29-06, 08:20 PM
Member
 
Deadshane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 62
Reputation: 1
Default

Its all about how you play them, most of my games the WW's go untouched. Careful maneuvering, and denying them as a target due to terrain/distance saves them.

....and who doenst use a farseer anyway? Its the best HQ availiable, so the points are already spent.

Lemme tell you something about fireprisms (and falcons for that matter) its nt so much killing them, but shutting them up and keeping them from firing thats important, and that isnt very hard to do. One lascannon shot can keep one from firing AND lending a bank shot to another...making it useless for a turn. (not to mention that you COULD get lucky and bring it down)

I've played that game against other eldar, and won. The tanks sometimes dont inflict enough damage when you can just shut them up.

Tyranid big bug armies LAUGH at tooled falcons and prisms because they think they RULE str 6 and above shooting. Glance the tanks and they cant shoot, then fire on other softer targets. One of the big strengths in the eldar codex, along with the ability of superior psykers, is the amount of dice we can roll when shooting. Be it catapults, or a starcannon/scatterlaser mix. Eldar are now ruling str 6 and above shooting OVER the big bug armies out there, throw in a doom on a target unit and we play that game better than they do by a big margin. Str 6 shuts down tanks like the falcon and prism easily when all you need is one glancing hit on that 180pt (or more in the case of falcons) target to shut it up. Tyranid big bugs are very prevalent at the RTT's and other tournies out there now as well, so watch out.

Before you call the WW's a "wet rag", keep in mind that an army with them plays the shooting game very well and is VERY offensive. Not defensive like the VP denial that the falcon/prism armies play. 180 pts for a single tank that is (granted) VERY hard to bring down, but fairly easy to shut up. Or 180 pts for 24 str six shots with rr's to hit and rr's to wound, scout, and cannot be silenced by a single lascannon shot....I'll take the WW's.

Prisms/falcons are great in a mechanised list. They are also really good for beginners to learn eldar with. Not trying to be insulting, but the warwalkers ARE hard to use and are an advanced veteran only type unit. If you know what you are doing though, and arent playing in a desert, Prisms and Falcons dont even compare to the sheer destructive power they bring to the battlefield. They just dont get their points back as easily, WW's can however...easily, and in spades.

"I'd much rather see you on my side than scattered into....atoms." Emperor Ming

www.40kwreckingcrew.aceboard.com
www.cityofhate-deadshane.blogspot.com
Deadshane is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-30-06, 12:50 AM
Senior Member
 
jigplums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,602
Reputation: 5
Default

I can see where your coming from, and don't worry i'm think skinned so not insulted in the least. Many things in many armies depend on your style of play AND the environment in which you play the game. Even more so with eldar, which are a specialised list anyway AND are a very balanced list in its new 4th edition incarnation, in that most things have there appeal in one way or another.

Bare in mind Mine was a reply to a question about fireprism's and also about its new popularity Because of the vast improvements it has seen. The warwalker/guide combo has been around for ages and is nothing new to see in eldar armies. they are more or less the same as they were before. Doom may help it out a little, but no more than anything else in the eldar army and in fact less than the stuff with lower str like shurikencatapults, banshees and rangers.

Yeah warwalkers are a good choice, But i find they are easy to kill. A landspeeder or two with wipe out a squadron in a single round. i'd still use them[scatterlasers would be my preference] but theres not many things i wouldn't use

Check out my gamer Blog
http://gamergeekery.blogspot.co.uk/2...rs-in-40k.html

Jezlad "I actually commented that Jigplums list was the least scary list I faced. Then took a pasting"
http://www.coolminiornot.com/artist/jigplums
http://www.coolminiornot.com/160095
jigplums is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-30-06, 05:56 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 677
Default

I've always been a big fan of the fire prism. It was pure murder in 2nd Edition, popping up and laying down its death then dropping again. I have two but don't get to use them much except in larger games. They are also amazing in Dawn of War. On a side note, I'm a big scatter laser fan as well. When the VDR had came out, I made an eldar heavy tank with 2 <gatling, long range, mega, blast> scatter lasers. It wasn't very expensive due to the cheap scatter laser, but with good rolls I could drop 36 Str7 AP5 small blasts into one or two squads, at 54" range. Eldar weaponry at it's finest.
Imagine a gatling prism cannon...
-Khaine-
Wrath of Khaine is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-30-06, 06:04 PM
Senior Member
 
jigplums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,602
Reputation: 5
Default

i reckon that would hurt

Check out my gamer Blog
http://gamergeekery.blogspot.co.uk/2...rs-in-40k.html

Jezlad "I actually commented that Jigplums list was the least scary list I faced. Then took a pasting"
http://www.coolminiornot.com/artist/jigplums
http://www.coolminiornot.com/160095
jigplums is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 12-30-06, 06:17 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 147
Default

Cant decide between Fireprism and warlwalkers. Take Both :twisted:
warrior-of-hope is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 01-01-07, 02:28 AM
Senior Member
Warboss Dakka's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 359
Default

Fire Prisims do not beat a guided WW squad full of Scatter Lasers, but at the same time it's not terribly difficult to destroy any squad of light vehicles. I've seen many players rely on things like Piranahs, Land Speeders and War Walkers, and they all seem to meet the same fate. No, 1 las cannon shot is not going to silence a WW squad, but who fires 1 las cannon at a squad of light vehicles?

What does light vehicles in is massed heavy bolter, assault cannon, big shoota, scatter laser fire. Someone who allows a unit to become so isolated that any light squad of vehicles can swoop in and wipe it out without facing hellacious return fire has commited a blunder and deserve what happens to them.

Also, as the article pointed out, simply surviving to be a target again the next round can make a vehicle like the FP a useful weapon, allowing your Wave Serpents to deliver their precious cargo where they are needed. Light vehicles do not often survive lots of shooting and thus do not fulfill the "target" role very well.

Warboss Dakka is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > 40k Tactics

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome