Blood Angels vs. Tyranid/Imperial Guard; advice? - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #1 of 5 (permalink) Old 03-24-11, 05:04 AM Thread Starter
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Default Blood Angels vs. Tyranid/Imperial Guard; advice?

Evening gents. This is gonna be real long-winded.

Alright, so I and my gang are all entirely new at this, having only been playing for around a week or so. As it stands now, I'm regretting my army choice (made based on fluff) as it seems to me that the BA simply cannot win vs. Tyranid or the Guard. I'm posting here hoping for someone to tell me that I'm wrong, and why.

So, on the Tyranid. As far as I can see, if the Tyranid player fields Warrior brrods with lash whips and boneswords, it's over. Mephiston = dead. As a matter of fact, anyone in CC = dead. Fair enough. In addition to that, however, he enjoys fielding those guys with a Hive Tyrant w/ a Heavy Venom Cannon. Due to that cannon, any armor that isn't a Land Raider = dead. I mean, honestly, a 9-strength cannon with a huge range on what I thought was a CC-based army? Wtf? Plus, it instant-kills marines, so no FnP save. In addition, Genestealers - which have a habit of popping in front of Devastators riding a spore - have a stupid high initiative, plus rending, and rerolling rolls of 1, all for a (what seems to me) stupidly low points cost. So, what is a BA player to do against such a force, then? I thought to field Dev squads (3 5-man squads, 4 missile launchers apeice) to handle the Hive Tyrant and any swarms. Genestealers landed in front of them in a Spore, venom cannon killed 3 of the 12 Devs, a surprise Deathleaper killed the last Dev in that particular unit. The following shooting phase, 8 Devs killed 2 Genestealers and the following assault saw another whole dev squad killed. Gabriel Seth then promptly died to the accompanying Broodlord. On the darker side, my forward attack squad--8 Tac Marines + a Sanguinary Priest and Mephiston--dropped near their point, only to be promptly gibbed by a Warrior Brood due to lash whips and boneswords (honestly, no armor saves combined with instant death combined with reduced opponent initiative combined with 4 attacks apeice on an assault? Seems unkillable in CC.) How would I have overcome this type of force? (Note we're all very liberal with proxies so any army list is okay. The whole game was 1550 points.)

Regarding the Guard, my woes are much simpler. They can field a 14-front armor Russ tank that has a, what, 70-something inch Large Blast attack that has 8 strength and AP 3. No armor saves, instant death for any non-HQ marine so no FnP, and Large Blast. The Russ fires and a Tac Squad dies, period. All of them. And they can field it for *150 POINTS.* Again; Wtf? That costs less than a Predator Annihilator! In a beginner's field that has *no major cover*, how can a marine army withstand Guard armor? I only managed to bring the last game to a draw due to a lucky shot by a Land Raider that managed to pierce the Russ' front armor and wreck it, but still. The sheer amount of Lascannons (3 per Heavy Weapons Team, plus one on both his Sentinels and one on the Russ) plus the weight of the Heavy Blast insta-gibbers (the Russ, and his 2 Basilisks) seems insurmountable.

On a brighter note, our fourth player plays Orks! 2 Furiosos w/ Blood Talons + Mephiston and a random assortment of other marines seems to = win thus far.

Any thoughts...? I'd really like to think otherwise than playing the Guard or the 'Nids simply = loss.
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post #2 of 5 (permalink) Old 03-25-11, 12:29 PM
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For the nids, and orks, try some flamer units... Tanks, landspeeders and assault squads... Works very well! Don't assault lash whips, burn em! If you are using little cover, as stated, spread your debs out so he can't place a model without being less than an inch away, and those pesky yrgml genestealers die before they arrive. And if they drop pod in, you have a full turn of blast templates or fire, awaiting them.

As for mass tanks, you can try reserving your army. Deep strike vanguards(with power fist) to try assaulting a tank or two when they arrive. Rest arrive with meltas, and hit side or rear armor. Then when the rest of your armor and reserves arrive, his lines are in disarray.

Just a few of the many options.... On my phone, so sorry about not elaborating more

Tyranid battle saying: "Grrrrrr, Hiss, Grrrr, Drool, Grrr..."
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post #3 of 5 (permalink) Old 03-25-11, 12:57 PM
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First off, make sure the Nid player is playing according to codex rules. Genestealers can't take a spore, and I'm not really sure why he would anyways since they can't assault the turn they land. If that happens again, focus fire on them before they can assault. If you ever see Genestealers in the open, make them pay for it.

HVCs also have some limitations. Tyrants only have a BS of 3 so they're pretty vulnerable to scatter. Also, make sure he's taking a -1 on the vehicle damage table.

As far as the BS/LW Warriors, no, you don't want to be in CC with them. Next time, be more careful about your deployment. Feeding them Mephiston like that was just asking for it. Warriors are krak missile and lascannon bait (instant death) so hit them hard from range.

Without army lists it's hard to make more specific recommendations but make sure the Nid codex is being followed, watch your positioning, and be patient. Sometimes it's better to hang back and shoot instead of rushing into CC.
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post #4 of 5 (permalink) Old 03-25-11, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohiocat110 View Post
First off, make sure the Nid player is playing according to codex rules. Genestealers can't take a spore, and I'm not really sure why he would anyways since they can't assault the turn they land. If that happens again, focus fire on them before they can assault. If you ever see Genestealers in the open, make them pay for it.

HVCs also have some limitations. Tyrants only have a BS of 3 so they're pretty vulnerable to scatter. Also, make sure he's taking a -1 on the vehicle damage table.

As far as the BS/LW Warriors, no, you don't want to be in CC with them. Next time, be more careful about your deployment. Feeding them Mephiston like that was just asking for it. Warriors are krak missile and lascannon bait (instant death) so hit them hard from range.

Without army lists it's hard to make more specific recommendations but make sure the Nid codex is being followed, watch your positioning, and be patient. Sometimes it's better to hang back and shoot instead of rushing into CC.
good advice

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post #5 of 5 (permalink) Old 03-25-11, 11:07 PM Thread Starter
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Good advice all round, thanks all!

It's quite true I fed Mephiston to the Nids and flew off the handle without thinking. I was too stuck on playing the BA as though close combat was the end-all be-all of the game, again, due to fluff. I hadn't even considered my Baal Predator sitting on the other table, or the Land Raider Redeemer I could have fielded. I've actually overlooked every flamer weapon as I thought I would never find a use for them, ever. Now I respect them, Assault Cannons, and the Power of the Machine Spirit rule as though they were divine. Live and learn, no?

As to the Guard, the Fast/Scoutness of the standard BA Predator combined with Lascannons and a standard Land Raider + deep striking Dreds seems to solve the armor problem in most deployments. Plus, we weren't aware of the blast template weapons halving their strength if the center of the template scatters off the vehicle thing. Thus, I'm not so afraid of them if I shoot first; if I shoot second, indeed, starting everything off the board seems to be a great idea. Thanks!

One thing though. I'm pretty sure Stealers can take a spore, no? The 5th Ed Nid Codex lists them as being able to take one as a DT. I meant, regular Stealers, not Ymgarl, sorry 'bout that.
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