Tank Busting for Chaos - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
40k Tactics Discuss the art of war in the 41st millenium. Exceptional topics will be stickied.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-22-10, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
Craw-Daddy
 
ckcrawford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,416
Reputation: 29
Default Tank Busting for Chaos

Deep striking meltas vs. Range Lascannons

In many ways, (I'm speaking primarly for the chaos codex) that lascannon has become obsolite.

I prefer not to think of it like that however. I still see many uses for the lascannons though limited of course.

Firstly, I actually prefer using my obliterators with lascannons at a distance more than deep striking them and using their meltas.

Reasons:
1. you are not guaranteed to be six inches from the tank you want to bust
2. almost every single time I see obliterators getting deep striked, they may blow up the tank or cause serious damage, however they get assaulted and in most cases whipped out. This is a lot of points to lose just to blow up a tank.

The cheapest way of doing a deepstrike melta strike is basically using terminators or chosen. At least thats what I find. But is it really worth it I ask myself. To wait and wait till the roll is in your favor. For those who have had been lucky with their rolls... i congratulate you. But I must say I'm the type of person who gets the percentage of the roll. So half the time I'll get it second turn and so forth. And I must say, even though the statistics have proven right, it doesn't really work well.

Predators with lascannons fully equiped aren't a bad deal either as long as they have daemonic possession. What I find is that a predator is much like a creature with a toughness 9. I mean if you look at it like this, a rocket launcher on the front part of the armor needs a five, and a lascannon needs four. Same as shooting at a creature with toughness nine... which there are none. Anyhow, I prefer that than having obliterators with toughness four that instantly die when getting picked off by most special weapons. Whoops... just saw 75pts go out the window. Of course you could give the same scenario with predators, but I must say the statistics are more in favor of the predator. However... one must be weary of the usage of melta guns being used now a days. People have become almost stupidly fanatical about sacrificing units with melta weapon to blow up tanks. The surprising thing, is that it is often the "nubes" or the least experienced players that tend to use the get my squads so close to the enemy so I can blow up a tank and watch my unit get chopped up to pieces soon after. Don't get me wrong, I have also seen some good players use the same stratedgy, but obviously not to the extent where every unit if deep striking right into the face of the enemy to blow up tanks.


I will show you my example. Though I did not have a chaos army during this instance. I had a space marine army against a space wolves army. In which he was basically deep striking (Podding) his army. They deep striked/ podded 3 units first turn and blew up a rhino and one of land raiders. Heavy loss, I must confess, however they were not able to blow up my redeemer and in one turn I was able to destroy every single model that was before my entire army. Huge chunk on my redeemer of course. If someone really wants to do use this stratedgy the best way to get rid of them is to do exactly what I just did. So what, you may lose some expensive vehichals here and there. However, because he is using this tactic he is making his force vulnerable by sending his army piece meal to you. Pick them off as they come, but make sure you destroy them utterly. Assaulting may not be the best idea, but if it needs to be done to eliminate the remaining forces until the enemy pods another unit... than its worth it.

Lastly, the last unit I'd like to refer to you guys about is the melta rhino assault. Preferrably using death guard, but can also be used by regular csm units. Highly effective against mechanized armies, however, the one thing I've realized after they are done blowing up their objectives is that the game gets a bit messy. Basically the melta rhino assault is grabbing a bunch of death guard and/or csm marine units in rhinos with meltas that charge the field to the other side. They get the job done, but as soon as they are finished they are no longer useful as they leave themselves vulnerable to special weapons attacks. Usually these units are ill equiped to deal with assaults so when facing armies with terminators, tyrnaids, or any units that are good at close combat fighting they will fall apart. Most players have them under ten man strength anyway so the losses from any special weapon fire just makes them more vulnerable.

Anyhow, just wanted to help the heretics out there who are confussed about what units to take in order to blow up other tanks. What to do if those units are not functioning well and so forth. I appreciate any other comments as long as it is made to help the other heretics out there.


As a furthernote, I have not included the other units that have meltas or lascannons because I do not believe them to be very helpful, though they may get the job done. For those heretics who support these units, go ahead and explain your reasons. I will just brief you in the reasons why I don't like to use them. If I'm forgetting any, let me know.

Dreadnought- Way to crazy to handle, and not worth having it effect your units.

Bikes and meltas- .... way too expensive and easy prey for special weapons.

Jump Troops- unreliable when deep striking. I've noticed that even atheists pray when they deep strike these fellows in hope they will land six inches to target. I much prefer these troops as assault troops with the MoS. When playing my space marine army I love players who play these units... perfect for my redeemers...

Land Raiders- pretty expensive but if they work for you... then kudos.

Defilers- more than likely never going to use them because you'll be using that cannon all the time. Otherwise it will be in close combat or destroyed. Therefore a waste of pts.

Last edited by ckcrawford; 09-22-10 at 05:57 PM.
ckcrawford is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-22-10, 06:37 PM
Senior Member
 
LordWaffles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,926
Reputation: 2
Default

Basically we're outdated by the much cheaper ig triple melta vets in chimeras, the BA razorback lasplas, the hive guard/zoanthropes, or the space wolf multitarget super inexpensiveness.

Basically we got owned. Our anti tank is four simplistic choices at the end of the day, we have obliterators, who fire lascannons or multimeltas(Mostly lascan), five raptors with two melta guns and icon of glory(Like 130 pts all together?), a daemon possessed vindicators(ALWAYS fires, s10 ordinance), or outflanking rhino'd chosen.

The chaos pred costs too much to vye against other tank hunter options, our land raider SHOULD be escorting zerks up the board(Or staying in the box as CLR are bad.)

So basically we have to use things that cost five times the value of their target, or we just cry to the good codex gods that we'll be graced soon. Those are the options.

I keep forgetting how hilarious my old posts are.

It's not a question of who will let me, it's a question of who will stop me.
You fight for nothing! You are nothing!
LordWaffles is offline  
post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-22-10, 07:11 PM
Senior Member
 
KahRyez's Avatar
KahRyez's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 140
Reputation: 3
Default

Aren't Havocs an option? They seem to have a variety of options that lets them range from tank hunters to horde killers, although their purpose overlaps with chosen in many respects.
KahRyez is offline  
 
post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-22-10, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
Craw-Daddy
 
ckcrawford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,416
Reputation: 29
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KahRyez View Post
Aren't Havocs an option? They seem to have a variety of options that lets them range from tank hunters to horde killers, although their purpose overlaps with chosen in many respects.
You are correct, I forgot that unit. But they are pretty much a done deal anyway anti-tank wise. Havocs are way too expensive. Though they do have some uses as you can theoretically have the most anti tank support being carried in that unit. I've seen people try to lower the number from ten men to 6 man units. Though, those tend not to work as they a nice weak target for those units seeking close quarters.
ckcrawford is offline  
post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-22-10, 08:12 PM
Senior Member
 
KahRyez's Avatar
KahRyez's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 140
Reputation: 3
Default

Well, I tend to run them in squads of five inside Rhinos, loaded with RLs or ACs. They match the point cost of a suicide Chosen squad with meltas and EA on their Rhino.

I'm also a fan of Predator tanks, but I have to be more careful about leaving them near table edges, as a full squad of GS jumped it and made mince meat out of it.

If I were to run Havocs along with a Predator, should I run them with ACs or RLs?
KahRyez is offline  
post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-22-10, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
Craw-Daddy
 
ckcrawford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,416
Reputation: 29
Default

I'd put them with rocket launchers if 20pts or less. otherwise they are too expensive.
ckcrawford is offline  
post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-22-10, 08:22 PM
Senior Member
 
KahRyez's Avatar
KahRyez's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 140
Reputation: 3
Default

Both ACs and MLs are 20 points. Thank you for the tip, it'll help me in future battles.
KahRyez is offline  
post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-22-10, 10:17 PM
Senior Member
 
LordWaffles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,926
Reputation: 2
Default

Also something to chew on, no matter what you deepstrike in, or outflank with, it has to be cheap enough to be sacrificial and worth it, but also has to be reliable.

In example, outflanking chosen with four meltas WILL KILL that land raider, three hits, 2 pens, kaboom. And the squad didn't cost nearly as much as the LR.

But what if it's like IG leafblower? you'd need to take the 70-80 pt obliterator and hope it kills two chimeras before it goes down, or blow open a russ, the other options are just too expensive to gamble on, imho. Except maybe the raptors, they move fast, will hit with a melta gun(having 2 means you need to fail a mastercrafted marine shot to fail, hitting on 3s, so statistically you hit) and with the improved threat range of jump packs, you're almost assured to get into melta range.

I keep forgetting how hilarious my old posts are.

It's not a question of who will let me, it's a question of who will stop me.
You fight for nothing! You are nothing!
LordWaffles is offline  
post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-23-10, 11:24 AM
Senior Member
 
IntereoVivo's Avatar
IntereoVivo's Flag is: Ghana
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 1,464
Reputation: 2
Default

I've been using a combination of Havocs and Oblits to good effect. The Havocs aim for AV12 and down and the Oblits shoot anything above.

I think it is worth point out that the value of Havocs doesn't lie in their tank popping abilities, but rather in their ability to take down light armor as well as murdering Monstrous Creatures and punching through the armor of MEQ. The number of shots (4 ML in my case) cannot be reproduced by any other HS in the codex and doubles the number of shots you would get were you to spend the points on Oblits.


IntereoVivo is offline  
post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 09-24-10, 08:19 PM
Senior Member
 
Widowmaker666's Avatar
Widowmaker666's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 310
Reputation: 1
Default

Chosen with 5 meltas in a rhino, outflanking. One of the best anti-tank squads around, cheap and super effective.

Havocs can take special weapons or heavy weapons or a mix (which i have NO idea why you would want a mix.) You can also put them in a rhino, that is potentially 6 squads of 5 and 4 meltaguns respectively.

Defilers rip open tanks, terminators with chainfist and combi-melta are also very effective.

Land-raiders are fun as well. People shouldn't bitch about chaos having no anti-tank options, they have plenty, just about as many as codex marines in my opinion. Including the best, again in my opinion, HQ in the game for its points, la deemawn prancee.

My personal favorite anti-tank option for chaos is pickin' up that big ol' heavy, metal chaos dread and chuckin' it at your opponents models.

Fuck the Meta-game
Widowmaker666 is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > 40k Tactics

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome