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post #1 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-07-08, 02:55 PM Thread Starter
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Default Versus The Carnifex



Probably one of the scariest, most versatile units in a list known for being scary and versatile, the Carnifex is a staple of the dreaded "Nidzilla" list.

Unfortunately, I haven't got a lot of experience with or against tyranids, so I'll leave it to our more experienced posters to say what the scariest combination of abilities is for these things, as well as how to deal with them.

My only advice comes from the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, p67 "Remember -- SHOOT THE BIG ONES!" I think that applies here. But I'm sure you guys can come up with something more specific.

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post #2 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-07-08, 03:15 PM
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i think a force weapon fro ma librarian would be a good idea if he has a retinue and some boosts
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post #3 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-07-08, 04:14 PM
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Well i'm sure tactics depend on what tyranid is taken. a sniper fex, a wing fex ext.

Also for upgrades there is one that increases there toughness, so if that upgrade is taken some weapons will no longer work as well.

---------------------------------
In addition to the guards uplifting primer, "shoot the big guns at the big bugs"

often what works for anti tank will deney the fex it's saves and thus wound it.
Ordanace usually works as they are often not alone so scattering is okay as you still hit something.
my favorite is snipers, no matter how tough you are, i wound on a 4+. a round of sniper shots can take a few wounds off enabaling other units to finish it off.

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post #4 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-07-08, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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Snipers are always a good thing against MCs.

But you bring up a good point. Should we figure out what everyone thinks is the scariest setup is for a fex and then decide how to beat that one, or should we just post as many ideas as we can about as many different types of carnifexes we can think of?

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post #5 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-07-08, 04:40 PM
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As an Eldar player, my plan for monstrous creatures would revolve around snipers (pathfinders) and rending (harlequins).

Generally they can soak a lot of firepower if you're trying to shoot them, but lascannons or missile launchers will eventually do the trick. Just it's accomplished faster in close combat, assuming its not a melee-fex. Ranged Fexs only get a few attacks at low WS, so they can only knock out a couple marines before you put the wounds on with powerfists.
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post #6 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-07-08, 05:16 PM
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Heavy support Carnifexes (the most common type) typically have a toughness of 7 and a 2+ armor save. Elite carnifexes have a toughness of 6 and a 3+ armor save. Both varieties usually have 4 wounds (the nid player can buy another wound and the ability to regenerate wounds, but this isn't usually worth it). So weapons that deal with carnifexes well are ones that can deal with their high toughness and great armor reliably. Melee carnifexes are somewhat rare as they're usually very inefficient (an assault unit that has a 6" move only and has a big target painted on it). If they're taken as elites you're more likely to see meleefexes due to point constraints but then they've only got a 3+ save and can reliably be killed with high volume str 6 or 7 fire while the heavier weaponry is trained on the heavy support carnifexes. Heavy support carnifexes usually come in one of two basic setups: sniperfex and dakkafex with sniperfex being the most common. Sniperfexes have a BS of 3, a venom cannon (str 10 ap 4 assault 2 36" cannot get a penetrating hit on vehicles unless open topped), and a barbed strangler (str 8, ap 5, assault 1 large blast 36"). This variant is for tank hunting and is fairly good at its role, though somewhat unreliable with its bs of 3. The dakkafex is an infantry hunter. It wields 2 twin-linked devourers giving it 8 str 6 ap - shots at 18" approximately 6 of which will hit and since it uses the living ammo special rule it gets to reroll to wound all 6 of those str 6 hits.

Anti-tank fire with ap 2 or 1, rending, and pathfinders are great for taking them down at a range, though it will take them a bit. Carnifexes can only ever move 6" so they'll have plenty of time to work on it. The most efficient way to take down any carnifex is to kill it with a powerfist in a big squad (preferably something cheap like ork boyz). Carnifex kills some expendable models, then the powerfist reams the Carnifex. May take a few rounds but it's worth it. Tyranid players do not like to send their fexes into melee with powerfists.

Force weapons are a gamble since they need a 6+ to wound. A typical character with one is going to have about 5 attacks and will have a 56% chance of inflicting a wound and will almost certainly die to the carnifex's attacks back. A chaos lord with a blissgiver (instant death from any wound) who rolls well has a slightly better shot at killing the beast, as does a chaos lord with the nurgle daemon weapon for the same reason that a DE character with an agonizer has a good shot (always 4+ to wound power attacks). Again, they need to worry about getting all 4 wounds in one go or risk instant death from counter assault (less of a problem for the DE with shadowfield). So, special characters have some interesting options but all have problems with getting instant deathed in return.

There are special characters that have a better shot, but taking a special character to counter a specific foe is kind of cheesy.

The really scary tyranid MC IMO is the hive tyrant. A winged hive tyrant with 2 twil-linked devourers and the right upgrades is spitting out 12 str 5 ap - shots at bs 4 that gets to reroll hits and wounds. It can move 12" and fire 18", is still a very capable melee combatant (and can kill tanks in melee), and has a 2+ save with 4 wounds. It's even very affordable at 196 points. You can also kit out a hive tyrant for CC but they still run into problems with powerfists.
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post #7 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-07-08, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you, Culler! That was fantastic both in the explanation of the different types and in how to deal with them. Very good stuff.

I regret to say that nids are one of the weak points in my knowledge base, so it's good to know that there's someone who knows what they're talking about involved ;-)

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post #8 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-07-08, 11:26 PM
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My brother's Dark Eldar Archon with Agonisers, Combat Drugs and Shadowfield, Plasma Grenades, a few other bits and bobs is infamous for slaying the most impossibly powerful units in a turn or two.

Agonisers and Power Fists/Powa Klawz are the best when you're more intimate with a Carnifex. At longer range, I wouldn't rely on snipers- they still don't ignore armour saves, and a 2+ save isn't particularly easy to fail.

Save Lascannon shots and Plasma Cannon shots for Carnifexes, don't try to eventually mow them down with Bolters or *shudder* Lasguns. Save THAT for infantry, where it' the most effective. Ordanance shots aren't a good idea- they're also best for infantry and vehicles, and can only deal one turn per shot.

Hope this helps. Cheers,

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post #9 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-07-08, 11:49 PM
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Quote:
My only advice comes from the Imperial Infantryman's Uplifting Primer, p67 "Remember -- SHOOT THE BIG ONES!" I think that applies here. But I'm sure you guys can come up with something more specific.
It's actually more important to shoot the fast ones, not the big ones. IG can trade shot for shot with most armies, fast critters getting into CC is much more of a problem.
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post #10 of 40 (permalink) Old 03-08-08, 06:09 AM
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As a Nid player, I'll tell you what kills Carnifex'.
Lascannons and Rocket launchers.
My Fex can run down the center of the field with his gribblies but he will be shot at. The real question is can you really just aim at him and ignore the little guys massed around him?
Lascannon fire and maybe a few Rocket Launchers will make short work of the big guys, unfortunately for me.

As said above, the thing you SHOULD be worried about is the Tyrant.
The Fex is scary but is usually taken out immediately in games I play, the Tyrant is big, scary, and is synapse. Add wings on that and you've got a problem.

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