Do you powerfist your tac squads? - Page 2 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #11 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-28-10, 07:09 AM
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Fist over power weapon any day. Sure you strike at Initiative 1, but if your in a combat where you'd get wiped out before you can use it, chances are you'd be screwed regardless of what you take. All the advantages have already been stated, so i'll just agree with them.

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post #12 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-29-10, 05:19 AM
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just don't put a plasma pistol onto the champion with the fist... nothing worse than losing a 70 point model (assuming seargant or aspiring champion...) due to overheat...
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post #13 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-29-10, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clever handle View Post
just don't put a plasma pistol onto the champion with the fist... nothing worse than losing a 70 point model (assuming seargant or aspiring champion...) due to overheat...
Actually I give them one. I rarely lose them to overheat.

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post #14 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-30-10, 02:15 AM
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Seeing as I usually field 2 of each type of squad, 2 tac squads 2 assault squads, I have one with fist one with power weapon. the fist gives the squad that ability to take out tanks but I like having a unit that makes full use of it's initiative as well.

Basically if only taking one I take fist, if taking two I mix it up...

For guard as nearly every major army in my area(eldar and MEQs) have higher initiave I throw them in like anyones business. they're gonna hit last anyway make them count

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post #15 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-31-10, 05:16 PM
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If I may make a counter argument, all marines now have frag and Krak grenades KRAK GRENADES.

Not at good as a powerfist but when you have 10 of them going at marine 'I' it makes the powerfist a little less potent, personally powerfists are a big no no.

If your chucking your marines at tanks and dreads or getting caught by them then "your doing it wrong"(thats what the free missle launcher is for)

Also those points are a few away from a rhino, why the hell would you want a 2-hit wonder over a rhino!?

This is a counter arguement, not the be all and end all.

Also have you SEEN assaulters this edition? you'll be dead before your marines can even take a hit normally.

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post #16 of 48 (permalink) Old 01-31-10, 06:31 PM
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anarchy, i dont agree with you at all. sending a squad out without a fist is like sending them out without a rhino - a cardinal sin in this edition! have the fist aswell 4 tanks. you may be able to destroy it first with nades. thats great. or immob it so the fist hits automatically! after all thats the hard part with nades. hitting. dreadies you hit on a 6 anyway. then krak nades need another 6 to glance. its just not going to happen. tactical means just that. they should be able to do a little bit of everything. if i see a unit without a fist then im going to destroy it with something that you cant hurt easily. dont even get me started on MC or the like... you would suck sooo hard without a fist that by not spending the 25 points for a fist would be like wasting that whole squad coz u were too tight to equip them properly. you may even get a job with the british MOD!

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post #17 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-01-10, 05:01 AM
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The only time a power fist isn't worth taking is if the squad in question is going to be less than 8 men strong. In such a case, it's better to go with a power weapon and an extremely cheap special weapon (when possible) like a flamer.

One of my favorite units is a 5 strong Tactical Squad armed with a power weapon and flamer mounted in a Rhino or Razorback (using either the Blood Angel or Dark Angel rules). The unit is designed to hunt infantry and excels in this role.

When it comes to larger squads like full strength Tactical Squads, units of Battle Sisters and the like then the power fist or equivalent is invaluable. A power fist does a lot for a unit that carries one. Some of these things are as follows:

- Gives the unit some realistic close combat ability. A basic Tactical Marine might seem like a formidable threat to a Guardsman or Termagant in close combat, but against anything tougher the Space Marines will be hard pressed to cause many wounds. A power fist helps even out the odds against tougher foes considerably, causing .89 Strength 8 armor ignoring wounds per turn against foes with a WS of 4-8 and a Toughness up to 7. If the unit gets to charge or the enemy has a WS of 3 or less, the fist will perform even better.

- Ensures that no matter what the Tactical Squad ends up in close combat with, they have a good chance of hurting, if not outright killing whatever they're fighting. It's not uncommon for power fist wielding Sergeants to punch out Dreadnoughts, or deal a wound one round after another in close combat with a Monstrous Creature. Even a deadly Hive Tyrant has to watch out for the hidden power fist. Fists also excel at instant killing models with multiple wounds. Independent Characters are very common targets for fist wielding unit champions.

- Makes it so that dealing with a vehicle in close combat isn't really a big deal. Yes, the unit's krak grenades can be extremely handy in dealing with things like Rhinos or Hammerheads, but aren't quite as effective against targets like walkers and some Leman Russ variants which have a higher rear AV. Where a krak grenade is rendered almost completely ineffective against AV11, a power fist really isn't terribly bothered by this and will happily smash the vehicle anyway.
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post #18 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-01-10, 05:23 AM
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I dont entirely agree with anyone who stats "You should always always do this one thing or else". Certainly I see the tactical advantrage of fists in Tact squads and i'm by no means saying dont do it, but its a waste to always do it and frankly a bit lazy. Your army should be ssupporting itself as a flowing unit, you shouldnt need to put fists on every tact squad and the points saved here should give you an advantage else where. There are always expections of course.

If you plan Tact Squad Q to sit back far away and just shoot stuff giving it a fist is a waste. If your concerned about an incoming dread or MC give them cover from a better unit.

Assault Marines... cant see why you'd never take one.
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post #19 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-01-10, 11:38 AM
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anarchy, i dont agree with you at all. sending a squad out without a fist is like sending them out without a rhino -

then krak nades need another 6 to glance. its just not going to happen. tactical means just that. they should be able to do a little bit of everything.

if i see a unit without a fist then im going to destroy it with something that you cant hurt easily. dont even get me started on MC or the like... you would suck sooo hard without a fist that by not spending the 25 points for a fist would be like wasting that whole squad coz u were too tight to equip them properly. you may even get a job with the british MOD!
First, it was just a counter arguement, don't worry I wasn't "telling how it is".

Also I wouldn't sent or let my tact squads near a dread, thats what anti armour units are for.

Tact units are for taking objectives, support is for clearing the area so they can do that, the big guns have long range for a reason. Thats what marines are all about, synergy.

Also you hit tanks auto unless they move, then your just hitting on 4+ auto, the most you want to do is immobalise, its the troops inside you want to worry about.

Also they way I see it, tact units already can do everying,your unbalenceing them by adding a fist, something which a las cannon shooting out the back of a rhino or a predator can do a lot more effectivly.

And Katie, I know you play demons and chaos, normal marines can't take hvy or special until they reach 10 men.

Also lastly, i have won plenty of matchs and I have never used fists, I always take the view, the right weapon for the right job not the random weapon for the unknown job.

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post #20 of 48 (permalink) Old 02-01-10, 12:36 PM
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jeez i wish i could play a game where all my units get to fight the ideal corresponding unit! if no fists work well for you then go nutz. just it doesnt work for me. hell maybe your just a better player with a better army/tactics and im taking the easy way out with a fist. I just think that tactical squads without a fist bring nothing to the table. they go down too easy. depending on how many points you play u may have like 3 scoring ten man units? maybe some scouts... now against anything else, without a fist your going to struggle. im thinking in terms of a tourney here where flexibility is the key. sure if i knew i was playing guard i might drop a fist for a weapon but otherwise... you infact make my argument better than i did

'Tact units are for taking objectives, support is for clearing the area so they can do that, the big guns have long range for a reason. Thats what marines are all about, synergy.'

what happens when you get attacked whilst your sat on the objective? in combat where your lascannons cant do anything? this game is all about combat. combat is very harsh and very quick. tac squad getting charged with 9 normal attacks then 3 power weapon attacks... not going to do much. nor is the fist to be honest. depends who is charging. just with the fist it gives you a bit better chance of hurting the big guys, like n0b bikes or mc with high T. its all about the instant kill that the fist can bring. any IC not EW can mostly be instantly killed by your sgt. sgt cant be picked out, IC's can. And for ten extra points compared from weapon to fist, its the kind of thing i class as a no brainer.

just read that back. im not trying to be an arse. i was being genuine. comes across sarcastic but just pretend you dont get sarcasm for a minute :D

As for the statement that hes a pussy in close combat... ignore that. He shreds things. Nothing with Str 10, 5 attacks that ignore invunerable saves should be called a pussy. - JackalMJ

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