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post #11 of 44 (permalink) Old 01-25-07, 07:24 PM
 
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Just been thinking about how to counter these beasts. Especially for those GTing in the UK. It applies to imperial forces only though (so no good for my tau )

Dæmonhunter Inquisitor, Psycannon, Null-rod, 2 mystics (vs Deep-strikers in other forces), 3 Heavy-bolter servitors.

The null-rod negates Veil of tears for the whole squad
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post #12 of 44 (permalink) Old 01-25-07, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anathema
Quote:
14" is the average distance rolled against veil and is well within charge range for the harlies.
Sorry to be pedantic, but its outside their charge range unless they roll a 2 or more likely 3+ for fleet. Getting that close with foot-slogging harlies is a dangerous game, a good Veil roll can leave them in all sorts of rapid fire problems.
"outside their charge range unless they roll a 2 or 3 for fleet"

seems like within charge range to me.

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post #13 of 44 (permalink) Old 01-26-07, 07:07 AM
 
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Oh I agree, most of the time you'll get in, but you can never guarantee it.
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post #14 of 44 (permalink) Old 01-26-07, 07:57 AM
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Taking chances is part of the game. The problem with chance is that sometimes you end up on the wrong side of it. That's the nature of lady luck. She's a fickle mistress, but when you do end up on her good side... things work out quite well. To roll a 2 or a 3 for a fleet roll is quite likely, anyway. You have a 50% chance to roll a 4+, a 67% (rounded up) chance to roll a 3+, and a solid 83% (rounded down) chance to get a 2+. For those of you who don't like Math-hammer... sorry, but statistics are a huge part of the game. Knowing the numbers with the odds is the difference between someone who's just good at the game and someone who's truly an exceptional commander.

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post #15 of 44 (permalink) Old 01-26-07, 08:42 AM
 
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Obviously its a risk worth taking in that situation, but my main point is that to end your turn within 14-18" of a rapid firing unit (for the next turn charge) for example is potentially a big problem. Averages count yes, but when you are 14" and they step up and reduce that to 8" then there are big problems. If you don't get within 14-18", then you won't be charging. Thats why Harlies on foot need extremely careful use of LOS blocking cover and supporting units to keep them from dying expensively.
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post #16 of 44 (permalink) Old 01-29-07, 06:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prophaniti
Just been thinking about how to counter these beasts. Especially for those GTing in the UK. It applies to imperial forces only though (so no good for my tau )

Dæmonhunter Inquisitor, Psycannon, Null-rod, 2 mystics (vs Deep-strikers in other forces), 3 Heavy-bolter servitors.

The null-rod negates Veil of tears for the whole squad
Or just take a Vindicare, and snipe the Shadowseer. He can do that as he ignores targeting restrictions, and the VoT is a targeting restriction.
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post #17 of 44 (permalink) Old 01-29-07, 08:31 PM
 
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Ah, no, not really. A proper examination of that rule shows the caveat that it's only for choosing which model to take off. However, with his goggles, he's able to see further into that Harlequn power.
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post #18 of 44 (permalink) Old 01-29-07, 11:04 PM
 
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Vindicare:
"Can target any model, regardless of targeting restrictions."

Veil of Tears:
"Any models attempting to target..."

Seems like a taregting restriction to me.
And the spy glasses only affect Night Fight, not Veil of Tears. Veil of Tears never says anything about night fight rules.
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post #19 of 44 (permalink) Old 01-29-07, 11:26 PM
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True he does Ignore It, but to be honest would you EVER truly consider using the Vindicare? :roll:
Shame really as I love the model.

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post #20 of 44 (permalink) Old 01-30-07, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Necrontyr
Vindicare:
"Can target any model, regardless of targeting restrictions."

Veil of Tears:
"Any models attempting to target..."

Seems like a taregting restriction to me.
And the spy glasses only affect Night Fight, not Veil of Tears. Veil of Tears never says anything about night fight rules.
I suggest never posting only part of a rule. While I don't have either codex on me I do not think the wording of targeting restrictions under the vindicare is supposed to work as you seem to believe. If the rest of that sentence refering to Veil of tears is anything like, "Any models attempting to target the harlies must roll to see if they can see them..." then it is not a targeting restriction because it does not prevent him from targeting the squad, just seeing and shooting at it.

A targeting restrction prevents you from chosing something as a target. Veil of Tears does not prevent you from choosing harlies as a target and so it is not a targeting restriction, it is a range restriction. As I said, I don't have the codicies on me so feel free to show me up by posting all of both rules.

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