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post #1 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-06-09, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
 
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Default Unlocking the CC Potential of a Necron Army.

I've recently thrown myself back into the hobby to discover that the Necrons now have a full(ish) army and codex. (I last gave up at a time when you had to carry around an issue or two of White Dwarf in order to use the necrons.)
The first thing that struck me was the green plastic gauss bitz, which is freakin' sweet. The second thing was the new (new to me) units available, especially those geared towards Close Combat...

...I've spent a month or two looking at the codex before finally deciding to go for it but I've come to realise that my vision of a bad ass CC army is seems damn near impossible, without going to Apocalypse proportions at any rate.

So here's the thing, if I run through some junk can you guys tell me if I've missed anything.

*Surgical rapid re-deploy assualts using the VoD are pretty much out of the question because-
Wraiths:- are effectively jet bikes. The VoD seems kind of wasted here.
Flayed Ones:- Would get torn to pieces during the shoot phase, plus I don't think they'd actually do that much damage in an assault. They seem moot.
Tomb Spyders:- Not necron + why would you when they seem to be best used to bolster the main phallanx.
Pariahs: Freakin... YES! Blasters AND armour negating CC attacks. Holy crap it's like these things were made for the oh dear, they're not necron. Can't benefit from teleporting (doesn't stop 'em phazing though grumblegrumblegrumble)

*Deep strike craziness.
Flayed Ones:- I, well, you could but, y'know, and it's like, I don't know, um, and... kinda like, maybe if you have abundant space and points.
Monolith:- using the monolith poses the pretty much the same cons as the VoD, HOWEVER it would certainly draw the fire whilst providing some of it's own. Breaking up CC and the second WBB roll could probably be used to good effect with the Flayed ones. For a turn, maybe two.

*CHARGE!
It's a possible. If you could use the warriors to sheild the Assault units and then spirit them away to a couple of monoliths that would then leave the way way clear for the assault units to run up and get to work without taking too much damage. However I can't see this working well sub-3/4000pts. Besides, I imagine such a tactic would be better used for setting up a killzone rather than a charge.
However, If all the units charging were wraiths then they could just go straight over the phallanx.

All in all it seems like unlocking the CC potential of the necrons is going to be hella (that's right. I said Hella) difficult. I do have another I dea but it's the sort of thing that would need illustrations.

Any other ideas. Have I missed anything?
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post #2 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-06-09, 12:48 PM
 
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Yeah from what I have heard and read cc and the Necrons just dont seem to go hand in hand. I will say I have no first hand experience with them as I am just starting to get my army together though so I may just be crazy!
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post #3 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-06-09, 01:02 PM Thread Starter
 
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Crazy? Nah, dude, I'm fairly sure the "Necrons are not CC" sentiment is going to be the general consensus, which is fair enough. It's just that I spend ages staring longingly at the Pariahs and the Wraiths and the potential they have, then I lament how largely wasted that potential is. It's enough to bring a man to tears.

...Well, maybe not, but still.
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post #4 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-06-09, 02:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Spadge View Post
Crazy? Nah, dude, I'm fairly sure the "Necrons are not CC" sentiment is going to be the general consensus, which is fair enough. It's just that I spend ages staring longingly at the Pariahs and the Wraiths and the potential they have, then I lament how largely wasted that potential is. It's enough to bring a man to tears.

...Well, maybe not, but still.
Yeah from what I have been reading in the Codex and online it seems to me that there is a TON of wasted potential with the Necrons. I played 40k in the 3rd ed and it seems like more and more that GW is letting the SM/CM and Orks have there way and everything else is getting nerfed. I understand that the SM/CM and Orks are in all likely hood, very big army groups played and why put your time/energy/money into other ones but there are other armies that people want to play GW!!!
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post #5 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-06-09, 02:47 PM
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The saddest thing is that even if you get pariahs in close combat as they all have warscythes none of their wounds count toward winning combat, so they autmatically lose any combat, and being fearless take all those extra wounds
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post #6 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-06-09, 03:21 PM
 
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The saddest thing is that even if you get pariahs in close combat as they all have warscythes none of their wounds count toward winning combat, so they autmatically lose any combat, and being fearless take all those extra wounds
The fearless part I'm with you on. I've only had bad experiences with Fearless units in CC.

The Warscythe wounds not counting toward winning combat though? This seems like a misinterpretation. Any wound that is unsaved, thus all wounds caused by the warscythes count toward winning the battle. So get a good to hit roll, then an awesome to wound roll and as long as your opponent didn't get the charge and they're not orks, you're set to win that round of CC.

As for Spadge's ideas, you're correct on pretty much all of them.

Though, Necrons do have some close combat options. Flayed ones are more or less useless at this point. They can't hold objectives, don't have fleet, and since 5th ed nerfed Deep Strike, can't move after deep striking.

Wraiths on the other hand are great in packs. Most people don't play them sub-apocalypse because in order to be effective you have to have 2 or 3 full units of 3. This way, they can benefit from WBB if one unit completely drops and this way you just have more of them.

The next CC choice that you seemed to overlook was the lowly but goodly Scarab Swarms. This is something you'll see some Necron players field, The Scarab Lord. They take a Necron Lord w/ Destroyer body and Warscythe and then take as many scarabs as thier points limit will allow (while still taking troops and other necron units as not to Phase Out) and then they just turbo boost their way in to combat. With a 2+/3+ cover save and the ability to be in CC by 2nd turn, its nice. Also, the scarabs have a ridiculous number of attacks and wounds. You'll see this army devour infantry heavy IG lists and Scout heavy SM lists. Possibly Ork lists if you never let them charge and avoid the Waagh. Oooo, and Tau, yummy.

Also, The C'Tan. They love CC. or love to ruin it for others. The Nightbringer is of course a beast, but since 5th Ed. The Deceiver has been getting more spotlight. With his ability to leave CC by choice and thus ruining and enemy's assault phase, being able to make units take frequent leadership tests, regardless of whether they're fearless or not, he's quite fetching nowadays. He's also a good combination with Pariahs. Since Pariahs make units near by have leadership 7 if not already lower, This makes the Deceiver more effective, And the Deceiver has the ability to make it so the enemy has to roll 6s in CC to hit. So even when not directly in CC, The Deceiver buffs it.

Otherwise, yes, the Necrons are generally seen as a shooty army. Once you get in to Apocalypse games though, CC is a thing of beauty.
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post #7 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-06-09, 03:56 PM
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I found a nasty trick vs shooty armies is to take a unit of Wraiths but keep them fairly to the rear at the start. Then I deep strike a Monolith from reserve near pthe enemy, portal through the Wraiths for an assault and BANG. Very nice vs Tau hehe. It gives the Wraiths the chance to assault units that are 36" away.
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post #8 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-06-09, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
 
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Firstly, I think I must overlooked something: why can't flayed one's hold objectives (book + edition (my codex is quite old and tatty) and page number?). Not that it really matters as I can't think of any use for them other than to buy manoeuvring time against hordy armies.

Secondly, I like the scarab lord tactic. I'd decided to equip my scarabs with disruption fields and go armoury hunting (I figured with that many attacks I'd at least destroy a weapon). Pairing them with a lord certainly puts a different slant on it. For on the lord wouldn't need the ResOrb and spend the points elsewhere.

As for the monolith idea, I can see how it could gut an army, especially if you had another two squads of wraiths to send in in later rounds, but is it legal to use the the portal immediately after a deep strike. Does the Ponderous special rule kind of negate this? (Sorry guys, it's been 5 years or so, I've got a lot of catching up to do when it comes to the intricacies).

I'm leaving the C'tan alone for a little while, I want to get to grips with the fundamentals of my army first rather than relying on "godly" lambastings. (Though I'm kinda liking the deciever).

Finally, as it seems unlikely that I can simply plough into the enemy (except perhaps for the wraiths) is it worth keeping a CC unit (other than the scarabs) handy for purposes of interception, body guarding and capitalising on any accidentally exposed weaknesses etc.?
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post #9 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-06-09, 06:45 PM
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I do amazingly well with my Necrons in CC.

First off this weekend I played a game vs IG with just infantry. It was an objective mission, and shooting at all those meat shields in cover wasn't going to get me anywhere. So what did I do? I got into close combat with all my units, even my destroyers and they all whooped ass. Before the game I did some mathhammering and figured out an immortal or a destroyer has a 30/1 advantage against an IG infantry model, which gave me better odds than me shooting at them and having them shoot back at me. All it took was two volleys by my destroyers into the HQ to kill their vox, after the head of the snake was cut off I had 20 guardsmen running from a combat with 4 destroyers.

So you cannon just say Necrons are bad in CC, because they are not always.

Secondly I have another favorite list of mine where I take a monolith, flayed ones, destroyer lord, and three units of wraiths. This also kicks ass, the 3+ inv save of the wraith backed up with some friends and the res orb of the destroyer lord really does well even against terminators. This is by far my favorite use of the Necrons.

Usually I will start two units or warriors and a unit of immortals on the board. Use the warriors to engadge and lock down the enemy, then deep strike the monolith on their flank, march out the third squad of warriors. Then I bring my wraiths and destroyer lord in to the same flank, and next turn teleport the immortals to the same flank. It's truley devistating, and the wraiths seem to be able to take on whoever I send them after esp with the lord.
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post #10 of 78 (permalink) Old 04-06-09, 06:49 PM
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I also never put dis fields on my scarabs, makes them way too expensive. Instead I prefer to use my wraiths to attack armor. Three wraiths attacking a leman russ that moved 6", have a 50% chance of destroying it completely, not to mention also destroying the battlecannon.
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