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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-06-09, 07:28 AM
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Why get within 12" of a rapid fire weapon when you can move up to 24" per turn with a speeder? The only way that should happen, is if you want it to happen or if you planned your turns incorrectly. Maybe the reason why your speeders keep getting rapid fired is because you're running 2 template weapons...
I feel that answer is a bit hit and miss, if your aiming for a horde then your going to want to get within the 8" sweet spot for the hvy flamers to work which is well within rapid fire range. I would feel more incline to use a speeder like that if it could move away after it's shot.

I never said that my speeder does get within rapid fire range, becuase my range is 48" and i'm miles away from the enemy, and I can move 12" and still fire my template weapons.

The danger zone is 36" near the enemry becuase thats the range of most Hvy weaponly, the closer you get the more chance of getting shot down. Also I feel the Twin rocket lauchers are more effective becuase you esentially(sp) have a 48" twin multimelta or small template flamer.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-06-09, 08:17 AM
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Still a nonsensical point. Why get within 12" of a rapid fire weapon when you can move up to 24" per turn with a speeder? The only way that should happen, is if you want it to happen or if you planned your turns incorrectly. Maybe the reason why your speeders keep getting rapid fired is because you're running 2 template weapons...
With multi-melta and heavy flamer I don't really see how you can not get within 12" of the enemy. If you are going to attack something, you have to go close to it. The only time you then aren't close to other stuff is if that unit was all by itself and you wipe it out.

I think it's an unreasonable assumption that you must have screwed up if bad stuff happens. Instead, maybe you have an opponent who knows what they are doing or the dice mis-behave.

The ability to move 24" has nothing to do with it. You can spend a turn running away if you like, but then you don't shoot anything. You still have to go close to actually take part in the game. That means another turn when you do nothing, and the typhoon sends off another couple of missiles.


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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-06-09, 09:41 AM
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Responding to the "why would you have a Land Speeder that close" quandries-
a poping of a land rider\other heavy tank, clearing out troops from a fortified position or other situational actions, can be answered by a MM|HF land speeder. you will have situation in which you cannot get the shot from cover, but sacrificing one 70 pts unit for the chance of making a big change on the playing field is something to be considered. acceptable losses, that the land speeders second name.


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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-06-09, 01:47 PM
 
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I was talking at the guy who was putting 2 heavy flamers on his speeder, not the guy putting typhoons on his speeder. What happens when you run into armor Typhoons I have said are ok, depending on what else is in your army.

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With multi-melta and heavy flamer I don't really see how you can not get within 12" of the enemy. If you are going to attack something, you have to go close to it. The only time you then aren't close to other stuff is if that unit was all by itself and you wipe it out.

I think it's an unreasonable assumption that you must have screwed up if bad stuff happens. Instead, maybe you have an opponent who knows what they are doing or the dice mis-behave.

The ability to move 24" has nothing to do with it. You can spend a turn running away if you like, but then you don't shoot anything. You still have to go close to actually take part in the game. That means another turn when you do nothing, and the typhoon sends off another couple of missiles.
If you'll notice I said the only time you should be getting within rapid fire range is if you want to. If you end up in rapid fire range without planning to be there and your game suffers because of this, it's not the speeder's fault it's your fault for planning your turns incorrectly (for the most part). I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that you're a competent player. You may have an opponent who knows what they're doing but again that's not a problem with the speeder it's a problem with you, the player. And dice....well, there's nothing you can do about that. Dice affect both speeder variants, as does opponent's skill level so that's kind of a moot point when it comes to comparing speeder variants.

More often than not, you can stay at 24 with the multimelta and hit stuff. Rhinos are not really worth getting 12" away from for melta range, and neither are things like wave serpents or falcons. Yes it's more effective at 12", but don't forget you have a S8 weapon that is still AP1 (the most important thing) at 24" or an effective 36" with movement.

All I'm trying to say is that with smart movement and deployment it becomes possible to have land speeders with multimeltas fill a niche in your army that would go unfilled otherwise. Typhoons do a job that is also done to some extent by predators or dreads with long range weapons. The fast vehicle mounted multimelta is so unbelievably good when used properly. Unlike attack bikes with multimeltas, they don't go pop as soon as they get hit by a lascannon, and they can deep strike if things are too hairy on first turn.

Again, it depends on what else you have in your army. No dreads or preds? Sure, take typhoons. You only have 5 meltas? Take more melta speeders.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-06-09, 02:13 PM
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DS in the Multi-melta-suicide-squad behind enemy armour then whiz around in the enemies DZ laughing like a maniac.

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post #16 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-06-09, 05:38 PM
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There is a tendency to try to do things in a hurry with the Land Speeder.

One of the successful marine players at my club runs a tornado pattern squadron with assault cannons. These three models are always whizzing around the edges of the board, hiding behind buildings to block LOS, and the opponent is just generally stressed out by them for most of the game.

Eventually he exposes them to shred an infantry group with 21 shots and then they usually get wrecked, but they've controlled the board and prevented the enemy from sending a squad out alone anywhere for at least three turns.
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post #17 of 17 (permalink) Old 04-07-09, 06:25 AM Thread Starter
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I want to say thank you for everybody's advice on using
space marine land speeders. If anyone have anymore
questions and advices, feel free to post some
messages. Thank You

My Warhammer 40k Armies

1.Aurora Chapter Space Marines
2.Imperial Guard Cadians&Catachans
3.Daemonhunters&Witch Hunters
4.Emperor's Hawks Chapter (Future Project)
5.Chaos Space Marines (Future Project)
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