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post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-08-09, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
 
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Default Dilema please respond

Ok, my dilema is this... I'm building a Space Marine list and I want to take an effective assault anything unit (likely to eat my points, but whatever) And I'm torn between 2 units, one with 3 variations.

Unit 1 choice 1: 8 TH/SS Assault Terminators in a Land Raider Cruisader.

Unit 2 choice 1: 10 Vanguard w/ Jump packs, power weapons, and meltabombs.

Unit 2 choice 2: 10 Vanguard w/ Jump packs and power fists

Unit 2 choice 3: 10 Vanguard w/ Jump packs and thunder hammers

(regardless of the choice, I might take a relic blade on the sgt)

Which do you suggest? Either way you go it winds up to a choice between speed and saves. So, speed or saves?

...

Ok... I'm just being cheesy now... on a vanguard unit, who likes the sound of storm sheilds?

Last edited by KageRyuuUji; 02-08-09 at 09:38 PM.
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post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-08-09, 09:12 PM
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Never look at Vanguard for effective assault units for a cheap price. With Jump packs and naked, you are looking at the same price nearly for Terminators.

Terminators are always far better. 2+/3++ Saves definately.

I'd suggest going for the 5 Terminators and a Land Raider, with a Librarian, leaving you a few points to take a Scout Sniper Squad, which can nick in and grab an objective.

Also, it'd help far more if you had a list we could look at ;) See what complements what etc, i.e. If you've gone for 3 Devestator Squads, etc, then it might not be good for you to have a Hardcore Assault unit.



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post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-09-09, 01:08 AM
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This would be better in the lists thread, don't you think? Or at the very least 'inside' the SM tactica rather than its own.
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post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-09-09, 11:48 AM Thread Starter
 
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Perhaps, but now the thread is up and I don't think I can delete it.

But anyway, I don't have a concrete idea on an army list, if I did I'd post it there not here, and I didn't see the SM tactica thread until I logged on today. You can basically assume that this unit will be setting the tone for the theme of my own chapter's first company.

Now as I said, I'm not wholly concerned with points effeciency (from me that's saying a lot), if that was the case this thread wouldn't be up as I would have gone with TH/SS Termies in a Cruisader. Basically I'm asking 4 quetsions here:

1) Speed: Can it reach it's target before it's target kills it/runs?
2) Flexibility: Can it face down all opponents with some marigin of success? ie tank/head hunting while facing down or avoiding interceding units?
3) Survivability: Will it survive more often then not? Or do I need to invest in points to ensure it does?
4) Combined Arms: Would a combined arms formation preform better than one option or another?

Sorry I can't offer you more
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post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-14-09, 11:20 PM
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i reckon go for the termies, but probz 5 of them with lightning claws and a chaplin in a standard land raider...
land raider does the tanks quite well....potentially 2 tanks in 1 turn, and then thats plenty of attacks to deal with any sort of unit....if you want to do the math, lets look at a unit of 20 berzerkers.....

Chaplin strikes 1st
4 attacks= 3 hits (4+ with re-roll)= 1.5 dead berzerkers (4+)...

18 berzerkers strike simultaneously with termies
54 attacks= 36 hits(3+)= 18 wounds(4 to wound)=2 dead termies & 1 wound on the chaplin (2+ save)

5 termies strike simultaneously
20 attacks=15 hits(4+ with re-roll)=11.25 dead

so altogether thats 12.75 wounds vs 3 wounds.....an additional 8.75 wounds=4.25 more dead.....total of 2.9166666 wounds (make that 3 for simplicity...close enough anyway) so average of 15.75 dead berzerkers vs 3 dead termies.....i dont have to point anything out there...poor khorne berzerkers...

all of that maths is done with decimals so the end comes as accurate as possible...obviously you cant kill 11.25 berzerkers, same as you cant have 3.5 people in a house, but if you ratio it to chances of each happening, i.e. 3:1 for 11 dead berzerkers:12 dead berzerkers, it all works out the same.

and if you take shrike as your 2nd HQ then you can give them all fleet....so move you land raider up 12 (it still gets to shoot 1 weapon) the termies disembark 2 inches away, then you fleet then you charge 6 inches, this (especially to any ork players....) total of 20+d6" charge in 1 go....

and it clocks in cheaper than the power fist unit even....

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Last edited by immense010; 02-14-09 at 11:24 PM.
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post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-14-09, 11:48 PM
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This is a vote for the Terminators.

Immense is all over it. The stats give me a headache (how do you break that down man).

But he is correct a unit of Terminators in a LR or LRC is going to be your best assault anything unit.

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post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-15-09, 02:38 AM
 
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5 TH/SS assault terminators in a redeemer/crusader is what you're looking for. 3++ invuln in combat makes them perfect for taking out elite monsters or cc guys with power weapons, while the rest of your army can deal with the rank and file anti-infantry (SM are pretty good at the anti-infantry thing).

Vanguard fail for so many reasons, price being the main one.
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post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-15-09, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshal Balian View Post
how do you break that down man
Sorry if it seems a bit awkward...
to break it up its just working on how many dice rolls out of a possible six work....

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post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 02-25-09, 09:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by immense010 View Post
Sorry if it seems a bit awkward...
to break it up its just working on how many dice rolls out of a possible six work....
Or as my friends and I like to call it, MATHHAMMER 40K
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