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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-17-08, 12:56 AM
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I think tooling them up enough so as you can actually expect them to fight makes them not worth the point value, on the other hand getting ld 9 or 10 is worth 40 pts especially when you have so many units that will be taking morale checks from enemy shooting, etc and probably voxes to make that sr. officer important. It might just be me, but I keep my HQ squad super low points give it a mastervox and commissar and stick it behind terrain just so that I have decent Ld. the whole game and since its on the vox, he doesnt get shot if someone fails a test.


All That is Gold Does Not Glitter
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-17-08, 04:54 PM
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Are Commissars worth it?

IMO, no.
Pros:
1. Not IC, so cannot be specifically targetted in hth. Course, IG officers now have the same status, since they're retinue is a retinue and they count as upgrade characters until the squad is gone. But yeah, they can be a hidden ST 6 powerfist/ST 3 power weapon.

2. Assuming he's in a Command squad, +1 Leadership boost for units within 12" of the officer. Note that the +1 boosted LD does NOT go down the vox (see the IG FAQ).

Cons:
1. Not IC, but they are a unique model, so you will have to allocate wounds to them if the unit receives enough wounds. And those wounds cannot roll over onto the squad.

2. Cost. A well-equipped Commissar runs as much as a squad with a heavy weapon. I'd rather have more guns.

3. Unit allocation. Assuming advisor Commissars, you are limited on where the Comm can go. 1st one MUST go to your HQ Command Platoon Command squad. Then you go to Infantry Platoon Command squads. Finally, depending on your army composition, you can get them into those other units, like the Infantry squads or Armored Fist squads. SO is it worth it to buy the 1, 2, 3, or even 4 Commissars you'll need to get one into that non-Command squad? Goes back to cost, that's how many guys with guns I can't take? Also note that they cannot be attached to certain units, like Ogryn, etc. Only those units listed in teh Advisors grey box can have them, unless you use up a Doctrine slot and spend even more points on them to make them Independent.

4. Summary Execution. Sorry, but this is nothing but a drawback now. Let's take that example someone mentioned, the Conscripts with an Indy Comm (who can be picked out in combat and as an IC, must pile in first and try to get into btb with the enemy). They get assaulted and lose, fail their -7 Leadership test, the Commissar does a summary execution and pops Joe Trooper. The unit will now take 7 more wounds due to No Retreat, and stick around to fight another round. Second round of combat, now under the Commissar's leadership, they lose again, we'll say only by 5, and now they fail their Morale again. Ooops, already used the summary execution (after all, he's leading the squad now, and he's not gonna shoot himself), can't do it again, so it's run away time, leaving the uber-assault unit free to move and assault again during his turn. For those who keep saying "never run away", wrong, it's won't run away for one player turn, after that, they can and will run. I'd much rather run away the turn he assaults and shoot them down after my unit flees.


So bottom line.
No, Commissars are not currently worth it, regardless of how cool they look. But I keep hoping, still have 15-20 of them, so maybe in the next codex............................

Don "MONDO"
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-17-08, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triangulum View Post
I think tooling them up enough so as you can actually expect them to fight makes them not worth the point value, on the other hand getting ld 9 or 10 is worth 40 pts especially when you have so many units that will be taking morale checks from enemy shooting, etc and probably voxes to make that sr. officer important. It might just be me, but I keep my HQ squad super low points give it a mastervox and commissar and stick it behind terrain just so that I have decent Ld. the whole game and since its on the vox, he doesnt get shot if someone fails a test.
I pointed this out in my post just now but it's kinda buried, so I thought I'd address it directly.

The +1 LD boost from the Commissar does not work on the vox, check out the IG FAQ. So you're only getting a LD 8 in the circumstance you describe.

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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-17-08, 11:00 PM
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I conceed the point, I was working off of the 4th edition FAQ



Independently- THAT SUCKS ASS, so the guard can never get ld 10 without the commissar in the damn squad?

Yeah they totally are not worth it anymore. I vote with the drop them from the list crowd.


All That is Gold Does Not Glitter
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.
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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-17-08, 11:11 PM
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I vote with the drop them from the list crowd.
sometimes its a good thing GW don't give a poop what there customers say

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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 12-18-08, 10:21 AM Thread Starter
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Ok so what about this;

having a commissar attatched to a hardened vet kasrkin squad. Worth it? I dont have the codex infront of me (4th ed) so I cant get the vet rules

"From the darkness we strike: fast and lethal, and by the time our foes can react... darkness there and nothing more."
Raven Guard saying

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