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post #21 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-06-17, 12:53 AM
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It's that way for the same reason that Majority Toughness is used in rolling To Wound as well as other simplifications, because it saves a ton of time doing Wound Allocation over doing everything 'correctly'. We've had editions where Wound Allocation could take 10-30 mins just to work out who died, especially with people trying to take full advantage of the various ways of making things more complicated to keep important models alive/spread the damage equally over multi-wound models and keep them all alive.

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post #22 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-06-17, 03:12 AM Thread Starter
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It's that way for the same reason that Majority Toughness is used in rolling To Wound as well as other simplifications, because it saves a ton of time doing Wound Allocation over doing everything 'correctly'. We've had editions where Wound Allocation could take 10-30 mins just to work out who died, especially with people trying to take full advantage of the various ways of making things more complicated to keep important models alive/spread the damage equally over multi-wound models and keep them all alive.
Every game i've done up until that one followed the idea that you do the wounds to all models under the blast and take em out that way. For instance if a small blast hit 6 models and the wound rolls does all 4 wounds then to determine who actually gets killed we'd assign a number for each model 1-6 varying upon that as needed and roll a d6 for each wound and that number means that model died. 4 is a heavy flamer so that guy is now dead, 5 was a Sargent so he takes it (not including look out sir etc) 2 being a normal troop unit and 6 being a pysker for example that way its not like you said being bullshit where people try to make it so only the ones they don't want to die stay alive while the others don't.

I mean i can understand how some people can be absolute 100% assholes with wound allocations and that shit but most of the guys i've played with have been pretty chill and got their own way of getting around that kinda stuff without scream fests on what hits what, what wounds what and what dies.

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post #23 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-06-17, 11:27 AM
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most of the guys i've played with have been pretty chill and got their own way of getting around that kinda stuff without scream fests on what hits what, what wounds what and what dies.
Unfortunately, not everyone is going to be like that. General rule of thumb is to expect those people to be at tournies, and that you will go up against highly competitive lists. Now whether those people know what they are doing (assaulting after deep striking) is another matter entirely.

I am surprised that your tourny allowed someone to field a forgeworld unit with experimental rules and not have to explain it to you first. (Also what Tau weapon is a large blast, and is ap3?)

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post #24 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-06-17, 07:26 PM
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(Also what Tau weapon is a large blast, and is ap3?)
At least AP3 you mean. Might've been a Hammerhead with an Ion Cannon, but more likely it was the other big battlesuit mentioned - a Riptide's Ion Accelerator seems a likely candidate. Or he might have just gotten unlucky on the saves...

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post #25 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-06-17, 07:58 PM
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At least AP3 you mean. Might've been a Hammerhead with an Ion Cannon, but more likely it was the other big battlesuit mentioned - a Riptide's Ion Accelerator seems a likely candidate. Or he might have just gotten unlucky on the saves...
Ah your right, most likely was the ion accelerator.

I'm rather curious to see the Tau and Grey Knight lists to be perfectly honest. The Tau list is rocking 415 points between the normal and Y'vahra riptides with only the ion accelerator upgrade, and the Grey Knight list is at 425 between a stock terminator squad and 2 dreadknights (535 when including the librarian with no upgrades.)

For your Tau opponent, its more a matter of wondering if he was fielding the correct number of points. I mean, between the two riptides, the compulsary crisis team, a stock strike squad, and a cadre fireblade your looking at 604 points. Thats 600 points with no upgrades except the ion accelerator, and no markerlights yet.

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post #26 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-06-17, 10:17 PM Thread Starter
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I'll try to clear up what they had to the best of my memory (And knowledge of grey knight/tau stuff)

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a Hammerhead with an Ion Cannon, but more likely it was the other big battlesuit mentioned
Yeah the one with the large blast was indeed a big battlesuit, unsure of what kind it actually was but it was either AP3 or AP2 Large Blast because it removed the armor saves of my marines which is 3.

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I am surprised that your tourny allowed someone to field a forgeworld unit with experimental rules and not have to explain it to you first.
So it was this stores second time hosting a warhammer 40k tourney so they are still working out what they can/will/want to allow and what they'll restrict. For instance the Skitarii got some restrcitons from memory they had to do with the amount of warlord like traits they got or something along those lines (sorry if that makes no sense i don't remember the skitarii related stuff, never fought them so it never came up again). As for the forgeworld unit with its special rules, well i wasn't aware it WAS forgeworld until i asked about the walker because it looked great, He never endeavoured to explain its rules/abilities and i never asked, didn't know they had a shit ton of custom rules thought they ran based of existing 40k rules with only slight modifications. The guy running it was aware it was forgeworld but allowed it (bare in mind this isn't a dedicated 40k store so that's why stuff isn't quite as relegated as you would normally expect).

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I'm rather curious to see the Tau and Grey Knight lists to be perfectly honest.
Ask and you shall receive, this is again based of what i remember so any formations/squads that don't add up either is cause they cheated or i'm wrong.

Tau:
He was rocking two large battlesuits, the forgeworld one and the other looking something akin to this (http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130603120203)
Neither suit had drones attached. He had a crisis suit squad with his commander attached. He also had 4 marker light drone squads (4-5 drones each potentially 1 was a gun drone). He then also had another suit squad, might of been crisis but yeah that was his list.
So to sum up
2 Big Battlesuits
1 Crisis suit squad w/ commander attached
4 Markerlight drone squads (4-5 drones one might of been a gun drone)
1 other troop unit, likely a crisis suit


Grey Knights:
He rocked 2 Dreadknights with the massive swords and psy cannons
1 Librarian
1 Chapter master, had a sword and thunder hammer
1 Grey Knight Termnator Squad (1 dual swords and storm bolter, One sword and psy cannon, 2 storm bolter and sword and 1 Sargent with storm bolter and sword)
He had a small list.

So thats the best my memory can do, idk if any of those combos are wrong or just right up illeagle but most of what i wrote is what they had barring the few exceptions where i wasn't sure of exact details.

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post #27 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-07-17, 12:00 AM
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Yeah the one with the large blast was indeed a big battlesuit, unsure of what kind it actually was but it was either AP3 or AP2 Large Blast because it removed the armor saves of my marines which is 3.
It was a riptide with ion accelerator then, thats in the Tau Empire codex.

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Tau
This was a combined arms detachment and the drone formation. I'm very leary on this one because crisis suits get expensive fast.

How many crisis suits were there in total? What kind of weapons did they have?

Even if I assume the second squad was only 2 strong, and all suits had plasma rifles and missile pods his list would have been over 1000 points.

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Grey Knights:

This is the Grey Knight list based on what you said, theres likely something missing but regardless this would be extremely tough for your deathwatch to deal with. It can get in your face very quickly and dominate in the psychic phase with 9-14 warp charges per turn.


So of the three lists you faced, Genestealer Cult is tough for everyone in general, the Grey Knight list was the rock to your scissor, and that Tau list might not have been legal or else it was super competitive.

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post #28 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-07-17, 12:16 AM Thread Starter
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I'm honestly not too sure about their weapons on the suits, i think they only ever shot once and even then it missed so i never paid much attention to the name of the weapons, also was more thinking along the lines of "holy shit 3/4 of army is already gone" XD.
I believe the commander was attached to a squad of 4 and the other might of been 2-3, can't really remember too well. If next time he's using that stuff again i'll be sure to check his rules and points myself (and other players too) cause i just didn't understand my enemy well enough though if it was an illegal list that kinda sucks ass, pretty sure he came in third for the whole thing


As for the Grey Knights i agree it would be tough, if i was aware that he couldn't in fact assault me right after teleporting and i managed to get that one more 6 to deny it, i'm not sure how it would of ended in the end, i could of just kept slamming shots into him from range whil he tried to close the distance, though i'm assuming he still would of got in front because of the teleporter. i did also manage to take a dread knight off the table straight up by just slamming everything i had and bad saving rolls by him and his terminators were still troops and i had a furor and malleus kill teams so asides from the two HQ i had the two kill teams that countered everything else. If he didn't charge me after teleporting in front of me i think i could of killed 2 terminators maybe the third with the furor nearby and slam the rest with the squad in front. It always sounds must more hopeful in post when you have time to think about what could of been, could of been done.

Also the Grand Master had two melee weapons. I know he counted it as two because he used the sword(Think it might of been either a relic or a power sword cause i had to do invul rolls so it was something that was ap2) in his melee so he could attack me first (with the hammer being unwieldy and all).

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post #29 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-07-17, 12:28 AM
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Yeah, then he might be new-ish to his army because the grand master only gets 1 close combat weapon, he can't exchange his storm bolster for a second one.

And even if he could, the hammer is a specialist weapon and the sword is not, so he would not get a bonus attack from having the two. He'd have been better off with a halberd in my opinion.

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Last edited by darkreever; 03-07-17 at 03:27 PM.
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post #30 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-07-17, 03:07 PM
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Agreed on the Halberd. +1 boosts him to S5,and he can try for Iron Arm when rolling powers if he doesn't think that's enough. His basic Nemesis Force Sword is great for fighting Deathwatch (Knighty: Think Power Sword with Force special rule).

He likely grabbed the Hammer and didn't realize he was replacing it, rather than adding to it ("may take items from the Melee list" sounds like it, until you actually read the text above the Melee list).

Unfortunately, calling mistakes like this one requires a lot of knowledge of your enemy's codex and even then you'd rather have the Codex on hand...

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