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post #11 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-01-17, 08:37 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Shandathe View Post
Firepower looks good. Note you could still kit one squad out for CC with a hammer to go with the Watch Master Getting to the other side of the battlefield on foot though... that's going to be an utter pain. Hrmm. No drop pods, suppose one squad could deploy from the Corvus... If you have one available, finding some points for a Rhino or Razorback would help immensely, I think. Rhino's probably plenty, seeing as how you can fire the heavy assault weapons from the hatch.

Mind you, I like my infantry mechanized. YMMV.
In my army i have enough units to make 7 Veteran Squads. One devestator Squad, 9 Termies, 4 Vanguard, 5 bikes, 1 Watch Master, 2 Captains, 1 librarian, 2 Razorbacks (1 twin lascannon 1 Lascannon, twinlinked plasma gun) A dreadnough with multi melta and of course the corvus Black star. Just to give you an idea of what i can mess around with for this listing.

Problem with adding a guy with hammer, and other close combat weapons is that in the end they end up being worth like a squad and a half on their own which really drops my body count, on top of that to get enough points for the razorback i'd have to drop a infernus and frag cannon and a stalker just to get it.

Also now i got the codex with me, the list i got there actually ends up being like 1100pts so i'd have to drop some more again

Essentially some things i feel i need to have is the Corvus as it'll be able to handle troop hoards with the cluster launchers and twin hurricane bolters, plus it can aid in any tanks with the twin linked lascannon and is able to survive for abit longer with the re-roll jink. I also want to take my Watch Master with me as he is the icon of inspiration, the go to guy when it comes to extruding sheer greatness to cheer up any depressed deathwatch player's day. Other than that i think i should take at least some terms and 2 either frags or infernus so i can swap between some kill team setups as needed without actually editing my list then and there (which i'm pretty sure is an illegal thing to do barring having some pts over). Other than that really anything goes for what i'd do

EDIT X2: So really by taking those things with 2 squads (all bolters asides from the 2 heavy weapons) the two termies all default kit, the Watch master and Corvus with relevant upgrades will cost 740pts, no including any additonal stalker patter guns, flamers, meltas, rocket launchers, Black shields etc.

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Last edited by Knighty; 03-01-17 at 08:49 AM.
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post #12 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-01-17, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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Alright so after some more thinking this is what my current new list looks like.
I'm thinking i'll still rock the devestators. I'll still be able to change my mission tatic one extra time because of the watch master so i'm not too worried about losing the other. As said before i'm not exactly for doing deepstrikes with the setup so the only thing i'm missing is the re-roll warlord trait (And from what i'm being told we may have the option to actually just choose the trait so i'm not really gaining much from doing BSSF formation) and the benefit is that i now have a squad to aid in anti tank.

HQ:
Watch master

Troop:
2 Veteran Squads (1 6 man squad)
- 2 Either Infernus or Frag cannons (swap the combinations out based on what i fight)
- 3 Stalker Pattern Boltguns
- 1 SS and Heavy Thunder Hammer
- 1 Heavy Thunder Hammer
- 5 Bolters
2 Terminators with basic roll outs
1 Devestators
- 2 Grav Cannons (Either this or the lascannons, they do alright with 5 attacks against stuff so i means they have more versatility than two lascannons)
- 3 Bolters

Heavy Support
Corvus Blackstar
- Hurricane Bolter
- Infernum Halo Launcher
- Blackstar Cluster Launcher

With the setup i have the ability to do either Aquila, Furor or Malleus Kill teams so i have some ability to counter whats likely to be my threat. As always if you think there is anything stupid or should be changed let me know. The tournament starts on sunday so i got plenty of time to make changes.
Thanks in advance.

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post #13 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-01-17, 09:44 PM
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I'm actually surprised you're not supposed to take everyone on with the exact same list. Anyway, good luck, let us know the results

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post #14 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-02-17, 05:46 AM Thread Starter
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I'm actually surprised you're not supposed to take everyone on with the exact same list. Anyway, good luck, let us know the results
Ahaha you aren't wrong. Its not set in stone 100% and the list has changed(though slightly now i look at it XD) with the squads upgrades and body count so the list is better than it was (and now knowing that i have really not be utilising the special ammo with normal bolter wielding SM's. I still might change it to take an extra squad to add up body count). I'll make sure to let you know how it goes on sunday and if i have brought honour or dishonour to the Imperium. Thanks for all the advice, tips and rule clearing (on the other thread) its much appreciated.

Hopefully the changes will help in the long run

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post #15 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-05-17, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
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I'm actually surprised you're not supposed to take everyone on with the exact same list. Anyway, good luck, let us know the results
Well i prmised i would tell you the results and so in short, the deathwatch got completely and utterly tabled. Out of every game i've played with them at this tourney was by far the most disgusting defeats i've ever had. I played a total of 3 games out of 4 (I sat out first round due to uneven numbers).

My first match saw me fight a entire Genestealer Cult Army. I gained first turn for myself but that really did very little for me. His deployment saw almost 3 units arriving within 3" of mine and alot more around 6". They even got to shoot, that's right shoot in the deployment phase of all dam things which saw me lose 3 models of the bat. I got my own back in my movement phase wiping out 2 units straight up (gotta love the underslung heavy flamers), and almost wiping a third but sadly i just could not do enough to all the units arrayed against me and the following assault phase saw my two squads (and m master) fighting 2 or 3 units a piece which resulted in a majority of my army wiped in his first turn. Second turn i got my corvus on, little help that did. By the end of his second turn he had finished off the survivors, my watch master leaving me with only my corvus. With all of his god dam go to grounds, invul saves and other such things i just could not get enough wounds with the amount of damage i was pouring in so i lost, my 2pts to his 12.

My second game was seriously just an absolute slaughter even worse than what happened in my first game. I was fighting a tau running a farsight enclave setup. I got first turn again, and again little did that do to help. I moved my guys into cover thinking that'd be smart, opened fire onto one of his walker dudes and got myself 2 wounds on him and one wound on another large walker dude. His shooting phase saw 2 markerlight squads negate all cover and a Large blast marker wipe the whole squad instantly. Now the other walker dude which is apparently a forgeworld one jumped like 30" in his movement phase and wiped all but my vet sarge with a Strength 7? (i think) AP fucking 2 flamer, ignore cover and some other such bs rule completely wiping everything. and his shit- sorry shot gun cleaned up my remaining unit. my watch master, still alive, unarmed and enraged by this disgusting loss of deathwatch lives threw himself at the accursed mech and scored 3 wounds against him taking him down to 2 hull points. My corvus came in as well but due to the sheer amount of marker lights got shredded instantly due to removing any jink saves. Next turn saw me reduce the walker to one hull point and right where it seems i would at least get one kill the fucking thing Jumps straight into reserves leaving him open to fire from literally everything else.... He died.

My final game though it should be noted was due less to bull shit stuff and more just a combination of god like and horrible rolls.

Fighting a grey Knight setup rocking 2 Dread Knights 1 Grey Knight Term squad with an attached Chapter Master and a Librarian thrown into the listing for good measure. Once again i got first turn and i actually managed to explode a dread knight into nothingness and get a kill on one of the terminators. On his turn he tried to cast gate of infinity, knowing i had to deny that threw all my dice (4) at it and failed to deny it by one dice that was a god dam 5. So yeah his squad teleport right in front of the squad which killed the dread knight and wiped it out in that assault phase. My turn 2 saw me throw my other unit into his librarian whilst my Watch Master charged into the Chapter Master's squad with vengeance in his heart, i declared a challenge and the god dam chapter master refuses me which saw 3 of his terminators die by his hand (Take that ya smug bastard). The fight with the librarian was a stalemate as both him and my sarge were stuck in a challenge. His turn 2 saw his other dread knight join the fray with the librarian (Should be noted i failed the reserves roll for my corvus). Dread knight wiped out the unit, The watch master got reduced to 2 wounds from the resulting melee. Got my corvus in on my third turn and tried to fire at everything i could, unable to confirm wounds (His invul roll luck was truly blessed by the emperor). My watch master reduced his Chapter Master down to 3 wounds but died from returning attacks. I flew my corvus to the opposite corner of the map, switched to hover and made my final stand. Didn't actually get anymore kills and he died.

So all in all the day was a complete slaughter for the old deathwatch and make me reconsider my life choices, i've got two land raiders and another librarian coming sometime soon so hopefully for the next one i can hold my own because Emperor mein god that was some bullshit XD. I truly wish i had a better report to give you after the help you gave me in realizing rules and abilities i never even knew i had (I did a fair amount more research after the last post and realized alot of rules i wasn't using effectively) But alas it was not to be. I think my final points count was like 3 maybe 4, possibly 2, you know imma just go with shit

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post #16 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-05-17, 07:03 PM
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First, I'm assuming the units you posted above are what you brought (I'd normally say list but I have no idea how your squads are actually kitted out, just what you have available.)

Which means a watch captain with no upgrades, something that was strongly advised against, a pair of terminators with no upgrades (so why bring them?) Those are three easy targets for first blood, kill points, and warlord kill in most games.

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His deployment saw almost 3 units arriving within 3" of mine and alot more around 6". They even got to shoot, that's right shoot in the deployment phase of all dam things
Thats called cult ambush, a rule that can cause a lot of damage very quickly. I'm assuming your opponent was running the cult insurrection detachment and had a subterranean uprising formation in order to maximize his chances of getting the best results. (Basically that formation lets the units it contains roll 2 dice for cult ambush rather than 1.)

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fighting 2 or 3 units a piece which resulted in a majority of my army wiped in his first turn.
The strength of the genestealer cult army is the sheer numbers they can bring to bear. A unit of 5 acolyte hybrids is the price of a deathwatch terminator and comes with 15-20 S4 attacks with rending. Metamorph squads can take whips, making them I7, again with 3-4 rending attacks.

Against genestealer cults, range, ignoring cover, and focus fire are the best tactics.

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opened fire onto one of his walker dudes and got myself 2 wounds on him and one wound on another large walker dude.
Initially I thought a crisis suit and then a riptide, but then your next bit..

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His shooting phase saw 2 markerlight squads negate all cover and a Large blast marker wipe the whole squad instantly. Now the other walker dude which is apparently a forgeworld one jumped like 30" in his movement phase and wiped all but my vet sarge with a Strength 7? (i think) AP fucking 2 flamer, ignore cover and some other such bs rule completely wiping everything.
I don't know what was using a large blast weapon, especially with ap3, but the forgeworld unit was the Y'vahra battlesuit. Its a forgeworld variant of the riptide battlesuit found in the regular codex, that has the ability to move like a flying monstrous creature (though it cannot do that for two consecutive turns), can jump into ongoing reserve, and has a torrent flamer that can either be ap3 or ap2 with gets hot (both are S6.) Its also 230 points and a fast attack choice in a tau empire army, so I'm not sure if your opponent was able to use it in a farsight enclave army.

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scored 3 wounds against him taking him down to 2 hull points.
Bringing it down to 2 wounds, as a battlesuit its not considered a vehicle. I will say I am kind of surprised you were able to do that, since its T6 and has a save the equivalent of your terminators.

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So yeah his squad teleport right in front of the squad which killed the dread knight and wiped it out in that assault phase.
Uh, correct me if I'm wrong but gate of infinity is treated like deep striking, so how did that squad charge in the same turn?

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So all in all the day was a complete slaughter for the old deathwatch and make me reconsider my life choices,
To be fair, and nothing against you, but you did go into a tourny with a non optimized list that you did not appear to know that well. Thats the kind of place where you really learn how much you know, and how good you are at adapting to situations.

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post #17 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-05-17, 07:54 PM
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My first match saw me fight a entire Genestealer Cult Army.
Yeah, Cult Ambush deployment is bullshit, though can go poorly for the Cult. Looks like he got some godly rolls if he pulled it off like that. Note it was worse on you due to DWs limited model count. Teleporting large blobs of cheap gribblies are pretty much nullifies any chance of getting a good position on him.

There's only a handful of ways to prepare for this (like taking Servo Skulls or Inquisitor Greyfax, as it mostly runs by Infiltrate rules) but you need to know it's coming beforehand for that Deathwatch itself doesn't really have any really good counters handy, though Templates should clear a lot of it up. Anyway, at that point the only thing you can do is shoot every weapon you can (and charge any Neophytes you safely can).

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My second game was seriously just an absolute slaughter even worse than what happened in my first game. I was fighting a tau running a farsight enclave setup.
A poor matchup, as their shooting will thin your already thin numbers... And as you found out, if you're visible, you can be shot. Only real way to fight Tau is good use of LOS blockers (assuming those are even ON the terrain) and blowing them up in small parts, and/or pulling off a good multi-pronged assault.

Enemy FW walker dude was presumably this one. Assault 2 S6 AP2 flamer with 6" torrent, that model was a quarter of his points and he had another one, apparently. Dunno what type it was, but even the 'normal' XV104 Riptide is somewhat under-costed, and having two of the big guys in a 1000 points is pretty cheesy. Nothing you can do about the enemy list though. Best tip I have it to always ask if you don't know what a specific enemy can do, especially big and mean-looking ones.


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My final game though it should be noted was due less to bull shit stuff and more just a combination of god like and horrible rolls.
Actually, there's some bullshit there. He's not actually allowed to Gate of Infinity across the board and Assault in the same turn, as Gate of Infinity uses Deep Strike rules. Grey Knights also have Personal Teleporters for rapid relocation, but those too will not allow for an assault the same turn. Shooting alone could have done a good amount of damage still, but as I'm guessing that was your Grav-cannon Devastator squad being removed from play, that's a big one for this game.


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So all in all the day was a complete slaughter for the old deathwatch and make me reconsider my life choices, i've got two land raiders and another librarian coming sometime soon so hopefully for the next one i can hold my own because Emperor mein god that was some bullshit XD. I truly wish i had a better report to give you after the help you gave me in realizing rules and abilities i never even knew i had (I did a fair amount more research after the last post and realized alot of rules i wasn't using effectively) But alas it was not to be. I think my final points count was like 3 maybe 4, possibly 2, you know imma just go with shit
FWIW, small elite forces are actually among the hardest armies to learn to play, especially at high level. An IG player can lose a Guardsmen squad and just shrug as he's got another 50 where those came from... the fewer models you have, the more you need to get the most out of each. Make sure you check the rules as you play friendly games, both for your own army and the enemy's as knowledge very much IS power. You'll find you'll do better the more you play, so... play more
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post #18 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-05-17, 10:48 PM Thread Starter
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My actual final list was different to what was listed. I did still have the devastators but had them attached to a unit. My watch master actually doesn't come with upgrades asides from relics and i took an ossesus key relic on him so i could get some additional bonus against vehicles if any go close or i managed to do (turned out to be useless as i never lasted long enough).

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Against genestealer cults, range, ignoring cover, and focus fire are the best tactics.
I had only two units plus my watch master, i did try to focus fire on all of the closest models but i couldn't kill enough of them and as they were 3" away at the start and many more 6" i couldn't keep them at range, i believe only my corvus had ignore cover weapons and by the time that came on it was too late.

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so I'm not sure if your opponent was able to use it in a farsight enclave army.
I can't really say for absolutle sure as i'm not a tau player but i'm fairly sure he did use it as farsight enclave.


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Bringing it down to 2 wounds, as a battlesuit its not considered a vehicle. I will say I am kind of surprised you were able to do that, since its T6 and has a save the equivalent of your terminators.
Yeah my bad i meant wounds not hull points, i keep thinking vehicles because their mechs XD. Yeah the guardian spear is pretty great with the AP 2 and the 5 attacks on the inital charge.

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Uh, correct me if I'm wrong but gate of infinity is treated like deep striking, so how did that squad charge in the same turn?
I assumed he was able to do because of relentless? I'm proberly wrong about that but i didn't know much about the power asides from hey i can teleport right in front of you so i didn't really contest when he said he was charging in that same turn. :/


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To be fair, and nothing against you, but you did go into a tourny with a non optimized list that you did not appear to know that well. Thats the kind of place where you really learn how much you know, and how good you are at adapting to situations.
I mean you raise a fair point. I did mess around with the list abit more before i decided it and did go through all my rules alot more and found out about alot of abilities and rules which i wasn't using in previous matches and i was using them in the tounrey. My main issue with the matches was i couldn't deal with so many targets in front of me with just the two squads, and the tau was well... that Large Blast and the Flamer walker which i couldn't focus down as i didn't have line of sight. I did learn a fair bit of just what to expect when you go into these kinda things and hopefully will be able to regroup and avenge the fallen in the next one, was only a small $10 tournament so its not like i lost out on it XD.

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Deathwatch itself doesn't really have any really good counters handy, though Templates should clear a lot of it up.
Yeah my flamers did do a great job of wiping whole units when they were firing but on his turn he made sure to wipe out the flamers, not hard to do when they are at the front.

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Only real way to fight Tau is good use of LOS blockers
The game wasn't done at any officel GW stores and was done at a local hobby store, they had some LOS blockers but not enough to cover every board effectively so i didn't really have much option for LOS blocks on the board i was on.


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Best tip I have it to always ask if you don't know what a specific enemy can do .He's not actually allowed to Gate of Infinity across the board and Assault in the same turn, as Gate of Infinity uses Deep Strike rules
Yeah given what happened during that i'll definetly asking to see the rules for shit like this in future because i didn't really contest anything much, mainly because i don't know all the rules for warhammer as well, still getting back into the swing of all the different rules. Like i had the guy i fought the Genestealer cult remove models that were "closest to the firing unit" when i used blast markers on some of his units when they weren't even under the marker, i did think that was wrong and its under the blast marker only and tried to argue that but ended up just accepting it, though i looked it up after and turns out i was right.



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both for your own army and the enemy's as knowledge very much IS power. You'll find you'll do better the more you play, so... play more
If only i could have all the xeno weaknesses downloaded into my brain like they do lol. Yeah i did have some idea with the genestealers and what they would do as i read my uncles codex on em as he was thinking of starting an army of his own and some it stuck with the infiltrate.

I suffered a pretty crushing defeat but i still have faith in my deathwatch and i'll defenetly keep playing games with them. I might actually invest in some IG troop based units so i can have more bodies so i'm not as easy to just wipe out like i was, i'll see how the wallet is feeling XD.

Cheers for the feedback as always, apologies for the Trump sized wall of text

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post #19 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-06-17, 12:06 AM
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Yeah given what happened during that i'll definetly asking to see the rules for shit like this in future because i didn't really contest anything much, mainly because i don't know all the rules for warhammer as well, still getting back into the swing of all the different rules. Like i had the guy i fought the Genestealer cult remove models that were "closest to the firing unit" when i used blast markers on some of his units when they weren't even under the marker, i did think that was wrong and its under the blast marker only and tried to argue that but ended up just accepting it, though i looked it up after and turns out i was right.
That's actually correct. In the rules for Blast, you'll find: "Remember that any Wounds inflicted by weapons with the Blast special rule must be allocated to the closest model in the target unit even if it is out of sight of any models of the attacking unit."

Though if it's also a Barrage weapon, the shots instead come from the center of the blast marker rather than the direction of the firing unit.

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That's actually correct. In the rules for Blast, you'll find: "Remember that any Wounds inflicted by weapons with the Blast special rule must be allocated to the closest model in the target unit even if it is out of sight of any models of the attacking unit."

Though if it's also a Barrage weapon, the shots instead come from the center of the blast marker rather than the direction of the firing unit.
I mean thats one way to get called out on that, though it makes more sense if a grendae drops onto a unit like that it'd affect the models under the blast but thats GW for you i guess

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