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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-08, 07:20 AM Thread Starter
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Boyz & shootas

Hello everyone,

So lately I've been reading a lot about Ork Boyz and shootas, and I've been hearing that they are preferable to the standard Choppa & Slugga. Could anyone explain to me the reasoning behind this? If I was to guess, I would say that it would be so that we can do drive by's in our trukks and have less attacks in CC so that we don't get left standing there and shot to pieces next turn.

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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-08, 07:22 AM
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It's more about effective range than anythign else.

Slugga boyz are useless outside of twelve inches.

Shoota boys can double that.

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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-08, 07:25 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Cole Deschain View Post
It's more about effective range than anythign else.

Slugga boyz are useless outside of twelve inches.

Shoota boys can double that.
Does the extra twelve inches help more than the slugga and choppa in CC? Also, is it worth taking shoota boyz if they're going into a trukk?
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-08, 07:36 AM
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Does the extra twelve inches help more than the slugga and choppa in CC?
No, but they still have two attacks apiece, so they do fine.

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Also, is it worth taking shoota boyz if they're going into a trukk
Absolutely.

Ork drive-bys rock.

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-08, 07:42 AM
 
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shootas are only 18 inch not 24...not too big a diff but its there...and i think theres value in both really if you math hammer it i thinks shootas are roughly more effective but id mix and match, im thinking of going 3 slugga squads 2 shootas and maybe some grechin to hold objectives, really it boils down to personal preference and how you use them...even mathhammer cant put numbers on that
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-08, 07:46 AM
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Oh, ALL of my old Boyz are Sluggas because of the old Codex.
Just wish I had a bit more Dakka these days.

And it is 18"

I must have been thinking of Storm Bolters or something

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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-08, 07:51 AM
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if you are doing a speed heavy ork army though is it worth keeping the orks in trukks with sluggas + choppas or instead shootas as really thats why you bring a trukk is to get nice and close which is where a CC boy works better than a shoota boy . Shootas are good but when you face strong fire power they can get very out classed.
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-08, 04:13 PM
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EVen in my dakkka ork army I like my trukk boyz to be slugga/choppa. I just seem to be able to get ork shooting to work for me so I prefer to take orks that can shoot. Really I think it comes down to two things why more people are taking shoota boyz. THe loss of the choppa rule and the raise of the shootas strength. This really made shoota boyz more of a realistic choice since there wasn't much benefit now to taking the slugga boy.


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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-18-08, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cole Deschain View Post
Oh, ALL of my old Boyz are Sluggas because of the old Codex.
Just wish I had a bit more Dakka these days.

And it is 18"

I must have been thinking of Storm Bolters or something
Though if you take into account the fact that they're assault weapons and Orks are always on the move, it is a 24" zone of control.

I would still put the effective useful range of slugga boys at 12" though, just because that's their total move+charge range. So in a broader sense, you are correct that shoota boys have double the effective range of a slugga boy.

I still like sluggas for certain applications though. If you know for a fact that the unit will be in CC for the majority of the game, or at least the really important bit, then I go slugga/choppa just because that extra CC attack is going to be more accurate and come into play more times than that extra round of shooting.

But if the unit is meant to be multipurpose, then shootas aren't a bad choice. Even without a second CCW orks still outstrip most armies basic assault units, meanwhile, that extra shooting range and ROF come in handy if the boyz are camped out on an objective, or acting as mobile fire support. In the days of pillbox vehicles, a big red trukk being able to move 7" and unload with 24 S4 shots is noting to sneeze at, even with orky BS.

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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 10-19-08, 01:29 AM
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The main problem sluggas have is that they are close combat troops. The reason this is a problem is that they have a low initiative so they nearly always lose guys when they get into CC. If you come up against another heavy cc army and only have sluggas, you may have a problem.

When judging a unit I always try to think of it performing its job in my army, not just in isolation. First and foremost, the job of ork infantry is killing other infantry. They probably have a power claw so they can take tanks apart if they get close, but that isn't their main role. As scoring units, they also have a key role in winning you the game by grabbing objectives. So which is best?

As I see it, enemy units you need to kill are going to come in one of three types: Stuff that you can't beat in cc with either sluggas or shootas, stuff you can beat with either, and stuff you can beat with sluggas thanks to the extra attack, but not with shootas.

Sluggas are only helpful in the third case but shootas are always useful unless you are shooting at something too tough for strength 4 to damage - in which case the sluggas aren't going to do much good either. In fact, it's difficult to think of a unit that a charging unit of sluggas would kill but shootas wouldn't. After all, the shootas are going to fire on the way in, so you end up with about the same number of attacks during the turn. You trade hitting on a 5 with shooting for the fact that you fire before the enemy strikes back.

Where sluggas are significantly better is in continuing combats or if they get charged themselves. Then they have 50% more hitting power. On the charge they only have 33% more.

The fundamental problem then for the sluggas, as cc troops, is that they have to charge even if they don't want to, as othehrwise they are doing nothing. It's very difficult to use sluggas to defend an objective, because anyone who comes to take it from them probably won't get shot at all on the way in. Shootas give you more options and flexibility, in exchange for a bit of straightforward hitting power in cc.


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