Predator Vs Vindicator. Jusice worth the Squeeze? - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
40k Tactics Discuss the art of war in the 41st millenium. Exceptional topics will be stickied.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-16-08, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 172
Default Predator Vs Vindicator. Jusice worth the Squeeze?

So I've been looking at the new point values in the codex,

60 Points Gets you a Predator

115 for Vindicator.

Now In order for the preds gun to match up to the vindicators, you need the 45 point, twin las cannon upgrade. Making it

105 Pred. 115 Vin.

If you really want to equal things up, throw in a storm bolter, and they are 115 a piece. Question now is...

We have 2 vehicles, same point value, same armor values, same searchlight, smoke launchers, and storm bolter. Difference, main weapon

Pred has the STR 9 AP 2 Twin-Linked Lascannon 48"
Vin has the STR 10 AP 2 Ordnance 1 Barrage wep... 24"

Now, to me the only question really is the range, if within 24" of my enemy, I can see no reason at all that I would want a pred. str 10 blast template is simply better than str 9 single target re-rolling misses. imo..of coarse.

Now you may lose a turn getting into place, but the Vindicator can bull-dozer right over difficult terrain no problem to get into position and maybe grab a cover save as well.

Its a hard choice...


I also have a separate question, along the same lines.

Take the dreadnaught, I'm debating the 30 point twin-linked las cannon, over no upgrades at all and keeping the default multi-melta. heres what were looking at:

Twin Linked Las Cannon : Str 9 Ap 2 Rerolling Misses 48" range 30 points
Multi Melta : 24" Range str 8 AP 1, Melta (extra d6 for vehicle AP within 12")

So more range, more str, less ap, rerolling misses for 30 points, or
less range, more powerful in 12", less str, more AP for free

Thanks for the Feedback!
Eric.West is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-16-08, 11:10 PM
Senior Member
 
Iraqiel's Avatar
Iraqiel's Flag is: Australia
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Top End
Posts: 2,422
Reputation: 68
Default

I think the difference between a vindicator and a las-predator is more in the roles for which you choose to use them. I agree, for a horde cc army, I'd be right with a vindicator. However, for a more defensive, mechanised or power armoured army, such as a guard or demon hunter force, I'd take a predator. Simply because staying put in order to disrupt their lines before your assault troops hit is more effective the longer that you can keep it up. With a vindactor, you have to push it up the guts to be offensive, which isn't always practical.
Iraqiel is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-17-08, 06:44 AM
Senior Member
Katie Drake's Flag is: Canada
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,539
Reputation: 1
The way I see it nowadays is that Predators are good when given an autocannon and heavy bolter sponsons. I don't even consider adding lascannons anymore now that a Predator Destructor is so dirt cheap.

Due to this, I figure Predators and Vindicators are meant to take on different roles. If you want to blow holes in units of Space Marines and generally scare the crap out of your opponent, then take a Vindicator. If, however, you're looking for a cheap heavy weapon platform to just spray a lot of shots at medium and light infantry, the Predator's your best bet.

Back onto lascannons on Predators for a moment - if you want to bring down tanks, you can take a Devastator Squad with missile launchers, Attack Bikes with meltas, Land Speeder Typhoons, Terminators with cyclone launchers... there are just so many other, far more resilient and hitty units that can have anti-tank weapons.
Katie Drake is offline  
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-17-08, 07:16 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 804
Default

Agreed with katie here, but GW did make the pred with ac and hb's look really nice 8 shots that can rip medium infantry apart, and its cheep enough you can throw the tank commander on there and STILL be significantly under cost of a full las pred, and then those 8 shots are hitting on 2's and you will always be shooting when you stand still
DaemonsR'us is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-17-08, 08:15 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 994
Default

The question about Predators and Vindicators was best summed up by Katie. Different tools for different Jobs.

As far as your Dread is concerned, it all depends on how you task it. If you are gonna use it as a Ranged tank hunting unit then give it the Twin Lascannon and pay the extra 10 points for the Missile Launcher arm. If you plan on keeping it in the forefront of your advance to support your Marines, I'd suggest the Assault cannon as opposed to the Multimelta. I've found that, even with the new rending rules, AC's are still able to easily put the hurt on vehicles as well as troops.
LeeHarvey is offline  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-17-08, 11:43 PM
Senior Member
 
Someguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: London
Posts: 1,988
Reputation: 1
Default

For a vehicle with twin lascannon I would pick a razorback every time. Then I'd probably swap the twin lascannon for a twin plasma gun and lascannon.

A predator with a lascannon turret is 50% more points than an equivalent razorback. Armour 13 is nice, but is it nice enough to justify 2 tanks instead of 3? Not in my opinion. The razorback also moves your guys around if you need it to.

As Katie has said, the best predator armament is now the destructor. That's really a lot of shooting for the cost. You can pretty much guarantee that this tank is going to be a good buy.

I don't like vindicators much at all. They don't tend to live up to their promise (of blowing up whole squads) very often. Mostly they will be firing at infantry in cover, where the huge strength and low ap don't really mean anything, and killing 1 or 2 guys a turn on average. I'd take a whirlwind instead for pick up games, or another destructor.


You can have your own opinion but you can't have your own facts.
Black Legion, Sisters WIP, Feudal IG WIP.

Last edited by Someguy; 10-17-08 at 11:46 PM.
Someguy is offline  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-18-08, 06:29 AM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 172
Default

destructor? I don't follow...the only weapon I find even resembling that name in the new codex is the demolisher, and.. thats on the tank you don't recommend. Opposite of the tank you say has the "destructor"..(the predator)

*hrmm?*
Eric.West is offline  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-18-08, 07:47 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 804
Default

lol destructor is the old codex's name for a predator with a autocannon turret, and annahilator was the name for one with a lascannon turret
DaemonsR'us is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-18-08, 07:49 PM
Senior Member
 
Dessel_Ordo's Avatar
Dessel_Ordo's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Eua Claire
Posts: 676
Reputation: 1
Default

cant be much help with the tank issue there, as I play a footslogger army (considering dropping the $$ to mount the whole damn thing in pods though).

As for the Dreadnaughts however, I agree that your loadout is entirely dependent on what role you need filled. For CC you cant really beat the Ironclad, SH and DCCW with 2 heavy flamers (or a HF and a Meltagun) with an AV of 13, its the best dread to put in there with your assault/objective taking groups. For Multi-purpose, a Dread with an AC and DCCW w/HF is best (you could switch the AC for a PC if you want); and for tank hunting, TL LC and ML is your best loadout.

And Someguy is right about Razorbacks, if your tryin to kill tanks in small point games, youll get the most bang for your points with RazorBacks

Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
My fluff so far, plz read and give feed back

Dessel_Ordo is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-21-08, 05:22 PM
Senior Member
 
edd_thereaper's Avatar
edd_thereaper's Flag is: England
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: lincoln, england
Posts: 427
Reputation: 3
Default

i would take a vindicator every time as it can move 6" and fire its weapon wheras the predator will only be able to fire one weapon if it moves

a strength 10 AP2 large blast template is just too irrisstisable and if i can take out 10 grey knights with a heavy flamer then just imagine the destruction that baby can wreck
front armour 13 aswell, pretty nasty
edd_thereaper is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > 40k Tactics

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome