Assault Cannon or Cyclone Missile Launcher for Deathwing Terminators? - Page 3 - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
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post #21 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-15-15, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by CrashGordon94 View Post
EDIT: Made that topic and it seems the consensus is that you can't have a CML on top of a Hammernator according to RAW. But again I'm sure that if you clear it with your opponents all will be well!
you know there's a 40k rules discussion thread on this site, eh? Lots of people aren't on Dakka/are here for a reason.

The 'swap all weapons' does not mean 'take any upgrades you want then swap them all out for x and pay all the points', it means the model's hands are full. It was worded that way so that Sergeants could swap their power swords as well, unless you've forgotten that fateful FAQ from 6th edition. I agree that it stops you from taking the CML first then taking the TH/SS, but again...why would you upgrade just to take it away?

Your only point of contention is this:

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The end result is that no swap is made. However in order to get to that point you must have a storm bolter initially. It is a requirement.
In actuality, the requirement for access to the list is having 5/10 models in the squad. Swapping the storm bolter is again just a matter of how many hands a Terminator has, and merely stops you from having to put the SB into a holster at its side since GW provides its kits with 100% WYSIWYG capability and expects hobbyists to follow that guideline. In order to take the assault/plasma cannons or heavy flamer the Codex requires a stormbolter swap, but the CML requires you to have a specific number of models in the squad.

"You must have a storm bolter to not swap it for another weapon" got laughed at by my gaming group in any case so I've got nothing else to add from them.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #22 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-15-15, 02:47 PM
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You can also look at Space Wolves. They're the only other codex that doesn't have dedicated assault/ranged Terminators. They were written differently, but it is extremely obvious that Space Wolves ARE allowed to take both together. It was simply another of GW's 'let's not use the same wording' issues.

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post #23 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-16-15, 08:57 PM
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@MidnightSun , got any thoughts on the subject?
You can totally bring Cyclone Missile Launcher with TH/SS.

That said, everyone other than Deathwing Knights seem like stinky poo really. Maybe the regular Hammernators are okayish?

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post #24 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-17-15, 01:35 AM
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You can also look at Space Wolves.
The SW 'dex is written identically to how the old DA rule was. So simple.

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Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post
You can totally bring Cyclone Missile Launcher with TH/SS.

That said, everyone other than Deathwing Knights seem like stinky poo really. Maybe the regular Hammernators are okayish?
It heartens me to hear you say that. DWK getting a Smash attack is indeed pretty great, though I still like my squads with shooting potential. Plus getting that many TH/SSs sucks.

Thanks for the responses guys, you've both called me enough times when I read things wrong. Good to see this time I read it thoroughly!

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #25 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-17-15, 05:31 PM
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It heartens me to hear you say that. DWK getting a Smash attack is indeed pretty great, though I still like my squads with shooting potential. Plus getting that many TH/SSs sucks.
Are they not AP3 as a basic statline now? I thought that was the case, which makes them baller, don't really give a shit about Smash tbh.

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post #26 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-17-15, 05:54 PM
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They are, but I'm surprised to hear you say you like them given your distaste for nemesis force halberds.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #27 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-17-15, 06:37 PM
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If you had to pay points to make DWK Str7 instead of Str6, I'd be down on that option too - Hammerhand is vital if you're in combat, mang.

Being T5/3++ is also a huge boon to them being a good combat unit. GKT are a serviceable melee unit, not being bad at combat, but they're not a combat unit either (they're a weird one, to be honest - I'm afraid my GK knowledge has peaked since I've sold the army, so what do I know? )

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post #28 of 28 (permalink) Old 08-25-15, 01:19 AM Thread Starter
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Sorry for the delayed reply, was kinda busy... Will also admit I was slightly intimidated but I probably shouldn't be.
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Originally Posted by ntaw View Post
you know there's a 40k rules discussion thread on this site, eh? Lots of people aren't on Dakka/are here for a reason.
Actually no, I managed to miss that forum somehow, don't know why.
I only saw 40k general, Tactics and painting around the section, I assumed it was because this site was stricter about rules talk than Dakka, but that doesn't seem to actually be the case. Maybe I was thinking of Librarium Online, where they seem to hyperventilate if you so much as quote a rule.

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Originally Posted by ntaw View Post
The 'swap all weapons' does not mean 'take any upgrades you want then swap them all out for x and pay all the points', it means the model's hands are full. It was worded that way so that Sergeants could swap their power swords as well, unless you've forgotten that fateful FAQ from 6th edition. I agree that it stops you from taking the CML first then taking the TH/SS, but again...why would you upgrade just to take it away?
For the record, I only had the 6th edition Codex for a little while before the 7E one rocked my army and I barely even saw that FAQ. Only thing I remembered was the Ravenwing Huntmaster being banned from having a Power Axe or Power Lance, which they also seemed to relent on in this book.
(Also replying to Xabre with this point) I was told that there was no such thing as a model having it's hands full (explaining the weird wording of Two-Handed and the Storm Shield's "No extra attacks" property as well as how Command Squad guys can have a Special Weapon, Melee Weapon AND Storm Shield all at once. First heard this regarding the Assault Squad Flamers) or orders of upgrades (except for related ones like "take Missile Launcher -> take Flakk Missiles" or "take Terminator Armor -> take items from the Terminator Weapons list". Don't remember where I heard this), I must say this has thrown me for a loop!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntaw View Post
In actuality, the requirement for access to the list is having 5/10 models in the squad. Swapping the storm bolter is again just a matter of how many hands a Terminator has, and merely stops you from having to put the SB into a holster at its side since GW provides its kits with 100% WYSIWYG capability and expects hobbyists to follow that guideline. In order to take the assault/plasma cannons or heavy flamer the Codex requires a stormbolter swap, but the CML requires you to have a specific number of models in the squad.
Well, you have 1 per 5 guys pointed at the list but I thought after you arrive at the list you'd need whatever it says at the top to actually use it?
Also seems like replacing it would be to stop you firing the SB instead of whatever fancy weapon was picked (in case they were too far away for the Heavy Flamer or you didn't want to risk Getting Hot with the Plasma Cannon)?

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"You must have a storm bolter to not swap it for another weapon" got laughed at by my gaming group in any case so I've got nothing else to add from them.
Well, very glad you've got solid consensus there and that nobody will cry foul on your model. And for whatever it might be worth BattleScribe agrees with you (despite the files coming from Dakka), I tried setting up a 5 man squad with all TH/SS before picking a CML and it let me (and it didn't with the other three so it's not just the program forgetting to look at the Storm Bolters).
I am torn apart by this though as one forum insists it's impossible so hard that they had guys hacking the CMLs off their Hammernators and another laughs at the suggestion that it can't happen, really confusing... I hate when stuff like this happens...
In any case, I probably wouldn't do it, I'm already eating a hole through myself over the thought of possibly running into the Ravenwing HQ Problem or the Deathwing Land Raider Dilemma with future army additions and the only time I've actually thought of taking Hammernators is when it wouldn't be possible anyway (alternate TH/SS Sergeants so their CCWs will actually have AP2 like the normal guys, and so AP2 weapons would have to get through a tougher invulnerable if he's in front! ) or when I didn't really want it anyway (My future Deathwing Command Squad, current loadout idea: 2x TH/SS, Champion, Apothecary and one guy with Chainfist and Plasma Cannon. All AP2 all the time! ...Except Doc).
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