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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-20-14, 09:38 PM Thread Starter
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Icon CSM: List Tweaking!

Hi there, new here to the forums and fairly new to the game. I've been playing for a few months now with the traitor marines, and I'm absolutely in love with them despite being on the weaker side of things this edition. But, what they lack in good choices across the board, they do have options! And dem giant fire-breathing turkeys.

My opponents are a few long-time players with all Xeno lists, not a single smurf or 'umie to be found amongst them except for a budding Blood Angels list, only 500 points whereas we play usually at 1500. The opposition includes:

Dark Eldar - heavily mechanized
Eldar Iyanden - all wraithguard, ALL THE TIME! Very much a fluff list, but can still be a threat without proper firepower
Tau - 1 Tide, a few devilfish, and a hammerhead round out a mechanized Tau list full of firewarriors and pathfinders
Daemons - a very unusual Daemons list that does not have a Fateweaver, but does run a Bloodthirster and Belakor. Features Horrors as the main shooting threat
Necrons - soon to be mechanized
Tyranids - 2 MCs, bunch of little dudes, usual Nids.

I've recently been (finally!) having some success with this most recent iteration of my CSMs, but I feel like it could use a few tweaks to do even better. My current list is:

Chaos Lord (Bike, Nurgle, Sigil, Burning Brand, Fisticlaws, Gift of Mutation)
Daemon Prince (Tzeench, Wings, Armor, Black Mace)

2 x Cultists (no add-ons)
2 x CSM (4 additional troops, no weapon upgrades)

Heldrake (Baleflamer)
Bikers (2 additional, 2x Meltas, Combi-Melta on the Aspiring Champion, Nurgle)

2 x Obliterators (single dudes)
2 x Havocs (4 x Autocannons)

Rounds out to I think almost exactly 1500 without checking my sheet, and while I am having a ton of fun fielding it right now, I think it can be a bit better. For one, I have had minimal success with the bikers, and even the biker lord, as my opponents armies can deal quite well with high toughness units. The T6 tends to not matter as they get annihilated a board away, and by the time they find a vehicle unit to hunt down, they're too weak to do their job. I could be fielding them wrong, but they have yet to make back their points in a game. The D Prince however has been fantastic, and always makes back his points. They Heavy Support and him are the keystones of this list, and of course the Drake is a significant threat, but I can only take 1 according to house rules. The Chaos Lord has been very hit or miss, and if I drop the bikers I may change him to something else, perhaps a second Prince?

Let me know what you guys think, I'm very open to feedback about the list.
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-20-14, 09:47 PM
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Honestly I say wait a week and see what changes 7th edition brings.

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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-20-14, 10:04 PM Thread Starter
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Well, chances are my group won't be using 7th anyway since most every player hates the idea of all units scoring, hate the new Psyker phase, and think Unbound is a horrible idea. I'm too new to really care all that much, but majority rules that it's going to stay 6th for a while at least.
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-20-14, 10:14 PM
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Just noticed the only one Drake house rule, is that only for the helchicken or is that fliers in general?


Honestly you prob should mention all of the house rules your group is playing before advice can be given properly. If they object to a second Drake I wouldn't be surprised if they objected to a second DP.

Are you using your bike's cover saves from moving? T6 and cover saves should be mitigating some of that fire power.

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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-20-14, 10:37 PM Thread Starter
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The rule only applies to the Drakes, because while the Prince is going into close combat and can be shot at normally, the Drake can only be hit on a 6 and even then most of their armies don't have a way to break AV12; they just don't have the models.

2 DPs are allowed and I had been considering running 2, but it's a lot of points to field them.

Really the only house rules are:

1 Zooming Flyer per list
Don't be cheesy
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-21-14, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Code: Crimson View Post
The rule only applies to the Drakes, because while the Prince is going into close combat and can be shot at normally, the Drake can only be hit on a 6 and even then most of their armies don't have a way to break AV12; they just don't have the models.

2 DPs are allowed and I had been considering running 2, but it's a lot of points to field them.

Really the only house rules are:

1 Zooming Flyer per list
Don't be cheesy

Your prince has wings and thus can only be hit on 6s just like the heldrake. And if they can't deal with av 12 at 1500, and at the same time are fielding tides of t6-t8 wraith units for you to deal with, that's completely hypocritical. Players with more game experience than you playing much more competitive armies telling you you can't field your best unit is also a bunch of crap.

Also everything is scoring yes but troops have objective secured and cannot be contested while controlling. It still means troops are still king for objectives. You can't write off a new (and vastly improved) edition before even trying it, but to each their own I suppose. If everyone enjoys 6th and you have enough variety in your group then by all means.

Your bikes aren't being as effective simply because the armies you're playing against have ways to mitigate their high toughness (via wraith weapons, poison, tau pouring high str high volume of fire shots, etc). I'm not sure how to fix this problem without removing the unit completely. I personally prefer a spawn escort for my choppy lord, simply because for 150 points you have to get through 15 t5 wounds who will likely have a cover save.

The rest of your list looks pretty similar to what I would run. I can only recommend dropping your vanilla csm squads for 5 man plague marine squads in rhinos with double plasma for midfield objective camping.
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 05-24-14, 03:19 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravner298 View Post
The rest of your list looks pretty similar to what I would run. I can only recommend dropping your vanilla csm squads for 5 man plague marine squads in rhinos with double plasma for midfield objective camping.
I tried this out, but the high T on them ends up being a total waste thanks to DEldar poisoned weapons, ton of S10/Instant Death, Massed fire, etc. Their armies are all highly, highly effective at blowing high T units off the table, so taking anything that banks on that is just a points sink.

Double Plasma is something I'm trying to throw anywhere I can, but the points are hard to squeeze in. Even Oblits aren't going to do a whole lot of good when a single shot kills them, or they can't hit/wound fast vehicles with Night Shields with a 4+ Jink.
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