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post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-19-14, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post

So, the Necron player chooses to challenge first, and then use MSS once he's in the challenge. If it's the other player's turn, he forces the Overlord to use his MSS, then accept the challenge. If the Overlord isn't in base to base contact with anyone then accepts the challenge, the MSS are wasted as there were no models in base contact when their activation (the start of the Fight sub-phase) came around.
.
This basically.

But then comes the argument, its still the start of the fight sub-phase when a challeng is made. So i an overlord isn't in the combat when he is forced to use MSS, is it used at all? So if then he accepts the challenge does he then use MSS as now there is a target and it is still the start of the FIght Sub-phase?

Me: To be honest im amazed there isn't a chaos god of not revising or at least chaos god of procrastination

MidnightSun: There will be, when enough people do it. Y'know when the Eldar were all engaging in their hedonism and Slaanesh ripped open the Eye of Terror with his creation? Slaanesh will have NOTHING on the God of Procrastination, and his vile minions will carve the galaxy asunder in a thousand year reign of blood.... Tomorrow
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post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-19-14, 10:09 PM Thread Starter
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I think that's reading too far into this, as previously stated the player who's turn it is decides in which order simultaneous actions are carried out.

Soooo, I assault the necron squad, ensuring my crappiest model is on btb with necron lord, request he uses mss, private bloggs fails his ld and twats himself with his bolter later on in the combat phase when blows are struck but survives due to it not being a power weapon attack, But after mss test is made I declare a challenge with Logan grimnar and bitch slap said necron lord crying all the way home to his momma

Is this correct?
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post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-19-14, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by maximus2467 View Post
I think that's reading too far into this, as previously stated the player who's turn it is decides in which order simultaneous actions are carried out.

Soooo, I assault the necron squad, ensuring my crappiest model is on btb with necron lord, request he uses mss, private bloggs fails his ld and twats himself with his bolter later on in the combat phase when blows are struck but survives due to it not being a power weapon attack, But after mss test is made I declare a challenge with Logan grimnar and bitch slap said necron lord crying all the way home to his momma

Is this correct?
Yup.

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post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-19-14, 11:23 PM Thread Starter
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Coolio
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post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-19-14, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by falcoso View Post
But then comes the argument, its still the start of the fight sub-phase when a challeng is made.
Challenges and MSS both take place 'at the beginning of the Fight sub-phase before blows are struck' (pg. 101 BRB, Necron FAQ pg 3), leading to the Sequencing quote I tossed out last page.

Sounds like we got ourselves a consensus here about Challenges and MSS. I like it

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-20-14, 01:17 PM
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Challenges and MSS both take place 'at the beginning of the Fight sub-phase before blows are struck' (pg. 101 BRB, Necron FAQ pg 3), leading to the Sequencing quote I tossed out last page.

Sounds like we got ourselves a consensus here about Challenges and MSS. I like it
And the target of the MSS is a random enemy model in B2B. If the Overlord isn't in B2B can the enemy force MSS before the challenge? As there is no valid target for MSS, the Overlord will then move and use it on the guy in the challenge, no blows have been struck yet so it is still during the period when MSS can be activated

Me: To be honest im amazed there isn't a chaos god of not revising or at least chaos god of procrastination

MidnightSun: There will be, when enough people do it. Y'know when the Eldar were all engaging in their hedonism and Slaanesh ripped open the Eye of Terror with his creation? Slaanesh will have NOTHING on the God of Procrastination, and his vile minions will carve the galaxy asunder in a thousand year reign of blood.... Tomorrow
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post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-20-14, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by falcoso View Post
And the target of the MSS is a random enemy model in B2B. If the Overlord isn't in B2B can the enemy force MSS before the challenge? As there is no valid target for MSS, the Overlord will then move and use it on the guy in the challenge, no blows have been struck yet so it is still during the period when MSS can be activated
No. You can't 'store' their usage and then activate them whenever you like. You must use them at the start of the Fight phase, whether he's in base contact or not.

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post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-20-14, 01:22 PM
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^ that response.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-20-14, 01:26 PM
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But its still that start of the fight sub-phase even after a challenge is made, its not storing it up, otherwise the MSS must always be done first. As @ntaw said, both challenges and MSS are at the start of the Fight SUb-phase before blows are struck, blows haven't been struck when the Overlord moves into the challenge but now has a valid target.

Me: To be honest im amazed there isn't a chaos god of not revising or at least chaos god of procrastination

MidnightSun: There will be, when enough people do it. Y'know when the Eldar were all engaging in their hedonism and Slaanesh ripped open the Eye of Terror with his creation? Slaanesh will have NOTHING on the God of Procrastination, and his vile minions will carve the galaxy asunder in a thousand year reign of blood.... Tomorrow
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post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-20-14, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falcoso View Post
As @ntaw said, both challenges and MSS are at the start of the Fight SUb-phase before blows are struck, blows haven't been struck when the Overlord moves into the challenge but now has a valid target.
As I (and the BRB) also said, since both things happen at the same time:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntaw View Post
pg. 27 7th edition BRB, under Sequencing:

Quote:
...you'll occasionally find that two or more rules are resolved at the same time...when this happens, and the wording is not explicit as to which rule is resolved first, the player whose turn it is chooses the order.
Blows haven't been struck for either thing to happen: they happen in unison. Since things can't happen in specific unison in the game (because it's turn based, among other reasons) the player whose turn it is gets to decide which happens first in real time. Every now and then you're going to lose the ability to mind-fuck people into violence upon themselves and their cohorts, good thing the upgrade is only 15 points. I play Necrons and I am not upset by this, it's almost the same as before anyway. The only difference, as Midnight pointed out, is that you no longer need to be 'in combat' to accept a Challenge.

Unfortunately Canada got rid of the penny and now my two cents rounds down to zero, so...take it for what you will.

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Last edited by ntaw; 07-20-14 at 02:12 PM.
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