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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-01-12, 10:22 PM
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most of the points have been addressed already

+ cheap firepower
+ HWT's in platoons are scoring
+ addition of snap fire / overwatch improved the useage on the move & gives a small benefit when being charged

- vulnerable to ID (since the two wounds represent two dudes you think they would have received IW....)
- low LD (LD7...) means orders will fail almost 50% of the time unless you park a lord comissar nearby


75pts for 3 autocannons that score is a pretty sweet deal if you ask me.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-01-12, 10:24 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
No one has an option to buy or have flakk missles. Otherwise tell us how much that costs or where it is listed in your codex?
Sorry, its just a friend was saying you could take these, I obviously wouldn't see it in a codex, as codex:IG was released before 6th Ed, no need to be pedantic...

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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-02-12, 07:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clever handle View Post
most of the points have been addressed already

+ cheap firepower
+ HWT's in platoons are scoring
+ addition of snap fire / overwatch improved the useage on the move & gives a small benefit when being charged
Hwts cannot overwatch as they are heavy.
BUT they have a lasgun : )

'Luck is the residue of design.' - John Milton

'Let the world tremble as it senses all you are about to accomplish.' - Luís de Camões
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-02-12, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ThoseKrazyKasrkin View Post
BUT they have a lasgun : )
Yay! Flashlight!

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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-02-12, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThoseKrazyKasrkin View Post
Hwts cannot overwatch as they are heavy.
BUT they have a lasgun : )
Rubbish- heavy weapons can overwatch... blast weapons can't (so no mortar or frag missile overwatch, everything else is golden).


Quick Runthrough:

Lascannons- very expensive and very easily killed. Good way to get lascannons into your army, but too fragile for their cost for my liking. I would probably use them in infantry squads (or defensive vet squads) rather then heavies...

Mortars- cheap, effective, lovely. I'm a big fan of mortars, especially effective for heavy squads as you can just hide them behind terrain so aren't as vulnerable as other types of weapons team.

Autocannon- excellent all-rounder and quite cheap. I also think its one of the fluffiest weapons to give your IG. I use autocannons in defensive infantry squads to give some extra beef to their shooting (especially if I blob up and then use Bring It Down... very nasty).

Heavy Bolter- don't bother, just take the autocannon. Against infantry the HB is only marginally better then the autocannon (and mortars would often be better) while against vehicles the autocannon is miles ahead.

Missile Launcher- another excellent all-rounder. Great against most MCs, good against tanks and able to rip nice large holes in hordes (or instant death MEQs with no save). I run a couple of heavy units with missiles and while they let you down against heavy tanks they do smash transports and light tanks around (although at times you would wish for the AP2 of the lascannon).


Personally I don't like the vulnerability of heavy weapons squads.... but you can't deny that they are very useful since while they may be easy to kill they are also effective ways to get large numbers of heavy weapons into your army that can be ordered around (vendetta may be better, but I think its far too good to use). First and foremost though I think you should have a plan for infantry/vet units and upgrade any that aren't intended to be moving forward with heavy weapons: they are the best place for heavy weapons since you have a whole load of spods to die first and protect your weapon (and remember you can move with everyone but the heavy weapon and still fire at full effectiveness). Only after that would I go for heavy squads (except for mortars- they are only really useful in heavy squads, but being able to hide them is a huge bonus to survivability anyway).

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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-02-12, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
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So....Mortars are the only ones worth it in a full weapons team, the rest should be attached to squads?

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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-06-12, 04:03 AM
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personally speaking I would state that heavy weapon teams are only worth bringing if you load them with missle launcher's. but you must have a company command squad to back up the unit or they do not stand well. bring it down is awesome when firing at MC's or vehicles when you are strenght 8 with enough ap to make it through armor saves. The largest problem is when they do take fire they have trouble with the leadership save. if you want tank hunting go with tri-lascannon valkyrie
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-06-12, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Shattertheirsky View Post
So....Mortars are the only ones worth it in a full weapons team, the rest should be attached to squads?
Mortars are the only heavy weapons I would take in a weapons team before defensive infantry squads as you shove them behind terrain and they'll work well for you... but you'll likely need stronger firepower then that.

At 1500pts I'm taking a unit of 3 missile launchers and 2 autocannons in infantry squads (and will have 3 mortars soon). The missiles work pretty well, especially if they are kept in range of a CCS to give them orders. At 2k I'm planning on another unit of 3 missiles to give me a little more firepower.

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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-06-12, 08:07 AM
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Foot Guard armies probably need HWT (S)'s moreso than vehicle-heavy Guard lists, simply because they're a good source of HW's.

If you already have Lascannons, Autocannons, Melta and Plasma weaponry in a list then Missile Launchers aren't required because those 4 are ever a better AP value and/or are multiple shot weapons, and while Heavy Bolters are now ok due to Glancing been a viable way of taking out Vehicles, IG can get them for free on many Vehicles anyway so why pay the points for them, plus AC's are the same points cost so should always be chosen over HB's.

The differences in points costs between them matters little if the expensive weapons are more effective than the cheaper ones....it's false economy.
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 08-06-12, 12:39 PM
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I personally am not a fan of HWTs because they are so damned inconsistent. One game, one squad of lascannons(without orders) took out a Tau commander on turn one. In one of my recent games, it took two squads of lascannons (with orders) 4 turns to even glance a land raider, and I had to sacrifice a command squad to take it down with melta because it was wrecking my lines.

That said, in foot guard you're out of luck when it comes to heavy weapons squads. If you're going for gunline guard, I'd recommend sticking one in your CCS, and taking a couple of squads of vets with heavy weapons teams. That gives you some BS4 heavy weapons, and then you can bulk out from there by adding a squad to your platoon.

In terms of weapons, Lascannons and Autocannons are the only ones even remotely worth taking. Lascannons make the unit a huge target, so I'd avoid sticking those anywhere without cover and ablative wounds, so vets and CCS. That also works with their requirement of higher BS to be effective. Autocannons are less of a target, but still pose a significant threat, and can deal out enough hits to deal with having BS3.

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Yup, that sounds about right. The only faction who are a bigger bunch of backstabbers than the Imperium are the Eldar (and this is debatable as the Eldar only stab OTHER factions in the back).
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