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post #31 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 09:45 PM
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Oh they are fire magnets for sure! That's about how long mine last as well btw. I use 2 land raiders as dedicated transports so I at least have a few lascannons to strike back with. I use them for that reason, for fluff reasons, and it really is a massive attention draw. By the time they die I have my world eaters carving their way through the enemy. That said I don't like the cost for the (Lack) of utility. I really hope they update it, the potential for a good unit is there but just got botched.
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post #32 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosspace2 View Post
The old saying "A bad workman always blames his tools" can be applied here,
Very true, very true indeed
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post #33 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 10:04 PM
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Sure a bad workman blames his tools. But only a retarded workman would bring a screwdriver to hammer in a nail.

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As an online discussion about 40k grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Squats approaches 1.
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Originally Posted by DeathKlokk View Post
Keep in mind you are arguing "realism" about an army of genetically-altered supermen that are able to shrug off rocket propelled explosive bullets because someone is waving around a cup full of blood that reminds them of their long lost Super Daddy that was killed by there Extra Special-Super Uncle.
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post #34 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mcmuffin View Post
Sure a bad workman blames his tools. But only a retarded workman would bring a screwdriver to hammer in a nail.
Still do-able though, if you hammer it in with the rubber/plastic end
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post #35 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 10:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaosspace2 View Post
And that is (currently) the role of defilers in my opinion, a tank shield, and they are pretty good at it. A giant walker with a cannon and horrible close combat weapons, ignored at your opponents peril. I am not trying to pick sides here, I am simply saying (as others have tried to) it has its role to play. The old saying "A bad workman always blames his tools" can be applied here, there is no such thing as a 'terrible model', they just need more thought as to how they can be used.
A 150pt shield is a damn costly bullet magnet. Why not use 35pt Rhinos? They don't slow the tanks down, unlike the 6" move of the Defiler, and you can buy a lot more of them - you can't bring down the shield with one Lascannon or Meltagun shot. They can also swap out positions in the formation with canny movement so you're always Obscured.

The Defiler, therefore, doesn't have a real role. Dreadnoughts do combat better, Obliterators do shooting better, Rhinos do screening better. So what does a Defiler do that something else doesn't do cheaper?

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post #36 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by chaosspace2 View Post
Still do-able though, if you hammer it in with the rubber/plastic end
But why the fuck would you bring a screwdriver instead of a hammer? Why bring a defiler when oblits are there? It takes 1 shot potentially to kill a defiler, but 2 at minimum to kill 2 oblits

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As an online discussion about 40k grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Squats approaches 1.
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Keep in mind you are arguing "realism" about an army of genetically-altered supermen that are able to shrug off rocket propelled explosive bullets because someone is waving around a cup full of blood that reminds them of their long lost Super Daddy that was killed by there Extra Special-Super Uncle.
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post #37 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 11:03 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcmuffin View Post
But why the fuck would you bring a screwdriver instead of a hammer? Why bring a defiler when oblits are there? It takes 1 shot potentially to kill a defiler, but 2 at minimum to kill 2 oblits
Precisely.

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post #38 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 11:03 PM
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A Codex on the verge of 2 Editions old that wasn't even very good when released...why do you seriously expect there are viable Competitive applications of suboptimal units at all?

HINT: There aren't.
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post #39 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-07-12, 12:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khrone forever View Post
no hes not wrong, he just dosnt play competitively with this army
Actually, I've been able to take them to the final round of Ard Boyz two years running but had no interest in traveling that far for $300.

If the entire game was something where you plunked down your list and decided who the winner was solely based upon the list, this type of discussion would be valid. Since the game is based upon a players ability and a myriad of other random factors, it is very hard to say that a marginally less viable option is a truly awful option.

I like mine, they accomplish what I need them to do. If only to take a few lascannon shots while the Zerkers close. They are a unit that may not do much if focused upon, but really must be dealt with. Which is pretty much my whole army, so it makes for some tough target priority choices. Which is what I call a good list.

Strange, but not a Stranger.

Last edited by DeathKlokk; 05-07-12 at 12:16 AM.
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post #40 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-07-12, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeathKlokk View Post
Actually, I've been able to take them to the final round of Ard Boyz two years running but had no interest in traveling that far for $300.
DeathKlokk, Ard Boyz was VERY far from actually being a Competitive event, as I'm sure you know?

I mean, the scenarios looked like they were written by a 6-year old...
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