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post #11 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post
The 'you should feel bad for taking them' is a joke, but I understand that due to the fact that you 'avoid socializing with other gamers', you don't know what a joke is.

Midnight
Wow...what a jerk, guess you just reinforced my feelings towards not socializing, because that's the attitude I refer to, it stinks and is very off putting.

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post #12 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 03:54 PM Thread Starter
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Wow...what a jerk, guess you just reinforced my feelings towards not socializing, because that's the attitude I refer to, it stinks and is very off putting.
If you're going to come into my thread and bash it for expressing my opinion, in that Defilers are bad, without a tactica of your own to back yourself up, then you should expect flak. Deal with it.

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post #13 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 03:58 PM
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i think it depends on the local meta and personal preferences.

I will admit that defilers are outclassed by oblits at a global level, but that means nothing if you do not like the look of oblits/like defilers.

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post #14 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 04:01 PM
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If you're going to come into my thread and bash it for expressing my opinion, in that Defilers are bad, without a tactica of your own to back yourself up, then you should expect flak. Deal with it.

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post #15 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
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that means nothing if you do not like the look of oblits/like defilers.
This is a tactics article, it's devoted to optimum output on the table. We have a fluff and a modelling/painting section for people who take things because they look pretty.

I hate it when people say that a bad unit's good, that's why I wrote the article. I'm attempting to, to quote, 'destroy this city of delusion'.

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post #16 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post
If you're going to come into my thread and bash it for expressing my opinion, in that Defilers are bad, without a tactica of your own to back yourself up, then you should expect flak. Deal with it.

Midnight
Except I never bashed it.

You started off poorly by saying you should feel bad for taking them, joke or not makes no difference humour + typed words = not easy to get across
Your entire "tactics" post is then basically a sarcasm filled wall of text that just in basic terms tells us the defiler is not as good as oblits or is just shit.
And then you insult me at not getting your "humour" because of me being sheltered
Get off your horse, its not big, its not clever and your proving nothing by acting like a little child

as to the so called point of the thread, People know its not as good as oblits, we don't need to be constantly told its not as good though, so surely a tactica on the defiler should be about using the defiler as best you can despite this weakness, but once again as most tacticas I've read so far here its not, its just the same old crap of calling a unit rubbish and telling people not to take it.

That's not tactics.
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post #17 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 04:33 PM
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is it not tactics to take the best option avaible to you?

if so then telling people what to take is tactics, and telling people that something is rubbish is tactics as it informs them not to take it

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post #18 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by khrone forever View Post
is it not tactics to take the best option avaible to you?

if so then telling people what to take is tactics, and telling people that something is rubbish is tactics as it informs them not to take it
Not really, not everybody wants to take the best, its boring, some people like the challenge, some people like the models and background but still want to use it effectively, how does telling them "its crap" help?

And midnights attitude of "you write one then" is pathetic, he isn't helping anyone by pointing.g out the obvious, beating a dead cow and then passing it to somebody else to do, plus I could sit here for hours writing about defiler use, post it up and 5 minutes him and his followers (I do notice when he posts the next post following is usually the same people, not here long but I do notice things like that) are just gonna come along, say its a load of crap and everyone else just thinks "oh I'm not reading that now, its just another tactica thread with people bitching"

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post #19 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 04:50 PM
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Not really, not everybody wants to take the best, its boring, well if you post a list or ask for advice on a forum you usually want the best advice you can getsome people like the challenge, some people like the models and background but still want to use it effectively, how does telling them "its crap" help? then you would ask for non competitive advice on things or a list

And midnights attitude of "you write one then" is pathetic, he isn't helping anyone by pointing.g out the obvious, beating a dead cow and then passing it to somebody else to do, plus I could sit here for hours writing about defiler use, post it up and 5 minutes him and his followers (I do notice when he posts the next post following is usually the same people, not here long but I do notice things like that)(maybe the same people like the same sections of the forums, or else hit the new posts buttons and read/post on them, which would explain the "coincidence" are just gonna come along, say its a load of crap and everyone else just thinks "oh I'm not reading that now, its just another tactica thread with people bitching"then you would put non-competitive in the title so people would understand that its a fluff/fun tactica
answers in green

khrone

[EDIT] and also this tactica is actually entitled "why defilers are bad" and not "how to use defilers to their best potential even though they are bad" which hints to its anti-defiler nature

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Last edited by khrone forever; 05-06-12 at 04:52 PM.
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post #20 of 120 (permalink) Old 05-06-12, 05:36 PM
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This article is crap, Midnight.

Not once, not ONCE, do you mention that it's nature as a CCC (Close Combat Crab) is in direct opposition to it's long-ranged and unable-to-fire-if-the-template-will-touch-itself weaponry, which dilutes it's ability to fulfil a task, rather than giving it options, as it pays points for both (limited) abilities rather than being, say, 100 points with EITHER two claws or a Battle Cannon (which wouldn't fit the model, or be as cool, but that's not the point of discussing how good it is.)

If you had pointed this out, you could have said how it's tactically inept by being too generalised a unit despite not possessing (pun intended) any genuine aptitude for either - a true CC unit doesn't have WS3, for obvious reasons, and a true shooting unit wouldn't be so blasted inefficient at it, either.

You should also have discussed how attempting to use it in the fashion for which the Soulgrinder is best known (Walk Me Closer, I Want To Hit Them With My Sword!) and the Defiler is also most commonly described, in fluff you open yourself up to the possibility of being Melta'd - without some form of Ceramite Plating, the Defiler is intensely vulnerable to Melta weapons, and in trying to put itself in 12" of things to make Assault Moves, it will naturally be in range to get popped.

The vehicle then, from a tactical perspective, is too weak at shooting (it provides anti-infantry, which is not what CSM lack, even if it WERE adequate at this role) and it is even weaker at close combat (which is decidedly inferior to shooting in this ruleset) so it present a tactical dilemma to yourself, not the opponent - this is the inverse of good.
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