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post #1 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-21-11, 09:05 PM Thread Starter
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Default Models Removed by Template Weapons?

Hey guys.

Played a quick proxy game today and had this issue.

I was using a Lord of Change with Breath of Chaos.

I moved within range of a CSM squad that contained 10 men, a Champion w/Fist, IOK, x2 Plasmas.

Now, because of the way the models were set up and the way I placed the template I was able to wound 5 models in total including his Champion, the Icon Bearer and 1 Plasma Marine.

All models were wounded and with no saves allowed were to be removed from play.

My opponent (my friends cousin) proceeds to remove 5 regular models. In other words he didn't specifically remove the models that were under the template, including the juicy champion, Icon and Plasma marine.

So you can understand why I'd be upset, but he argued that he can just remove 5 models from the squad (ala regular shooting), as I caused 5 Wounds and that those specific models do not need to me removed.

Probably a simple enough question, and I'm 99.9% sure I'm right, but I'd appreciate the back-up as I don't have a Rule Book of my own, and it was just a quick proxy game today and I was told to quote 'lighten up' when I insisted on finding a ruling in the BRB.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-21-11, 09:14 PM
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I dont know the exact wording for BoC:
-If it states it causes wounds with no saves allowed then I would say he was okay by allocating the 5 wounds to peons
-If it has a similar wording to warp rift, then I would say that every model under the template that had to take a test( of any characteritic, ie, toughness, I or Ld) and failed it should be removed.
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post #3 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-21-11, 09:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrdoMalleus View Post
I dont know the exact wording for BoC:
-If it states it causes wounds with no saves allowed then I would say he was okay by allocating the 5 wounds to peons
-If it has a similar wording to warp rift, then I would say that every model under the template that had to take a test( of any characteritic, ie, toughness, I or Ld) and failed it should be removed.
Doh!!

I'm such an idiot, I was flicking the BRB when I should have just checked my flipping codex.

It says, quote 'Any models fully or partially under the template suffer one wound on a D6 roll of 4+, with no armour or cover saves allowed!'.

So do you think is that ruling enough to prove that it is those specific models that have to be removed, as the ones under the template are taking the wounds, or do you think it can still be fopped off onto the squad in general?
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post #4 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-21-11, 09:23 PM
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Rulebook page 29.
Template.
"Wounds inflicted by template weapons do not have to be allocated on the models actually covered by the template, but can be put onto any model in the unit."

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post #5 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-21-11, 09:23 PM
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Sadly as templates and blast weapons have no special wording the standard rules for complex units till apply meaning he can allocate the wounds however he please, in fact the only way to get around this limitation is causing more wounds then there are models as this forces him to roll a wound on each model as he is forced to take one or more wounds on everyone (Note I once killed a marine Sargent with bolter fire this way).


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post #6 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-21-11, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pssyche View Post
Rulebook page 29.
Template.
"Wounds inflicted by template weapons do not have to be allocated on the models actually covered by the template, but can be put onto any model in the unit."
Does the codex ruling I quoted above supercede this do you think? Or am I buggered on the ruling?

(+Rep for looking that up)
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post #7 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-21-11, 09:25 PM
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Quote from Codex: Chaos Daemons
Breath of Chaos is a template weapon.

Quote from 5th Edition Rulebook
Wounds infilcted by template weapons do not have to be allocated on the models actually covered by the template, but can be put onto any model in the unit.

There's your answer.

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EDIT: Damn, ninja'd by 4 people! Seriously, you guys posted at 9:23, 9:23, 9:23 and 9:24. That's some damn fast ninja'ing.

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Last edited by MidnightSun; 06-21-11 at 09:27 PM.
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post #8 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-21-11, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightSun View Post
Quote from Codex: Chaos Daemons
Breath of Chaos is a template weapon.

Quote from 5th Edition Rulebook
Wounds infilcted by template weapons do not have to be allocated on the models actually covered by the template, but can be put onto any model in the unit.

There's your answer.

Midnight
But the codex rule for Breath of Chaos says 'any models fully or partially under the template suffer one wound'.

Isn't that case enough to suggest it is those specific models suffering the wound, and not the squad?
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post #9 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-21-11, 09:31 PM
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i think that, since it specifically mentions the models under the template, that it hit's the models under the template
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post #10 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-21-11, 09:53 PM
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Nah, it's just telling you how to work out how many hits the unit takes.
Then, when you allocate those hits to the unit how to go about resolving the wounds.
So, in your example the template causes five automatic hits to the unit.
He is then free to allocate those hits to any five models out of the ten available.
He allocates the hits to (presumably) the five weakest members of the unit and it is from those five that models failing the wound test are removed with no armour or cover saves.

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