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post #31 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-22-11, 04:31 AM
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thanks for that khainiteassassin
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post #32 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-22-11, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by GrimzagGorwazza View Post
Okay i have an aditional to this line of thought but applying to a different piece of wargear. Nurgles rot. The wargear description says "models within the radius are effected". Do the standard wound allocation rules apply to this or is it the specific models as i would say the latter.
The psychic power is used in the shooting phase instead of a shooting attack but is not a shooting attack itself as it can effect a large selection of units at once, requires no LOS and can be used whilst in combat. In this instance when we say "models within the radius are effected" are we still talking about models or does this actually mean "models under the template take wounds, which may be allocated across the squad as normal."
Well, as I understand the rules, wound allocation is always however you see fit (except in CC when you are singling out an IC by being in base to base). So, if I've got a 10-man squad, both of the special weapons within range of your Nurgle's Rot, I'm still going to apply the overall saves to my regular bolter-bearing wound-dumps. I'm pretty sure that is how it always works with wound allocation.


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post #33 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-22-11, 09:18 AM
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The best way to look at all these rules is to consider the rules for Hitting, Wounding, Saving and Casualty Removal in the BRB to all be the default. From there rules will modify them but you always go back to the default if it doesn't mention anything else.

Breath of Chaos/Wind of Chaos - They're Template Weapons as they say, so you place them like Template Weapons. They don't modify how you hit so you go with the default, they do modify how you wound so you go with that, they modify your saves, they don't modify your wound allocation.

It's Specific over General. You follow the General rules for Template Weapons with the exceptions.

Nurgle's Rot/Aura of Decay - These are weird powers, not truly shooting attacks, but if we don't use those rules we've got no rules to follow for how to resolve them. It modifies how you hit, but not how you wound, save or allocate.

Specific over General is how you resolve most codex rules queries.

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post #34 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-22-11, 09:58 AM
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The best way to look at all these rules is to consider the rules for Hitting, Wounding, Saving and Casualty Removal in the BRB to all be the default. From there rules will modify them but you always go back to the default if it doesn't mention anything else.
An excellent method of rule resolution.
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post #35 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-22-11, 12:26 PM
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Also, there are still instances where "models" are hit in the BRB. Exploding vehicles has the same wording as Nurgle's Rot.

Wound allocation is inherent to the process of wounding/armor saves. Only when specifically stated do you circumvent that.

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post #36 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-24-11, 04:28 PM
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Did any of the previous editions of rules say that the specific models under the template are removed? I thought that the whole point of the removing casualties from where you want was to respresent the fact that the men arnt neccisarally standing exactly where they appear, but they represent the area they occupy and are like milling around and stuff. Not letting the template weapons circumvent this means of wound allocation stops people using a basalisk as a sniper rifle right?

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post #37 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-26-11, 10:49 AM
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Did any of the previous editions of rules say that the specific models under the template are removed?
First edition did.
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post #38 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-26-11, 11:13 AM
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Similar situation

i have had a similar argument when i have rolled a double 6 when using the shokk attack gun, however it does state in the codex that all models under the template are automatically removed when this happenens. This says to me the wound allocation is not applicable because it states in the codex that all models under the template are automatically removed from play and as the shock attack gun is a template weapon the wound allocation therefore becomes at random. It seems to me that this counts in the same instance after all u have had to move the attacking model into position of tactical importance to achive the desired affect i.e killing the character model. So therefore the attack rule in your codex should take precendence.

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post #39 of 51 (permalink) Old 06-26-11, 11:57 AM
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with any template weapon that hits models, causes wounds ect it down to the person who owns the unit to allocate wounds(despite who under the template, except for certain attacks ( like a vindicare assasin)

the whole reason a character is put into a unit is to avoid him being picked out with template weapons and any kind of weapon fire, then even if he is hit the wounds get allocated to a normal squad member( and also i could imagine a member of the unit pushing a character out the way of a attack to save him again a reason it down to the owning player to allocate wounds.

some one wrote that the area a squad occupys just repersents the area a squad is in not the certain placement of people in the unit as the members of the squad would be moving around, to me this sounds like a very good explanation as the squad members wouldnt just be stood in place

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post #40 of 51 (permalink) Old 07-06-11, 12:28 PM Thread Starter
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I have a new question, based on the same original topic.

Basically, the previous discussion about assigning template hits to the squad, rather than the individual models has been an eye opener for me.

I'll be honest, in all my games played in our group, myself and others have always just assumed you removed the models underneath the template, without even looking into the matter.

It took an 'outsider' (he plays once and a while) to force me to look up the rule (whine at Heresy) and be proven wrong! Doh!

Anyway, I borrowed my friends rulebook and have looked at the section on Template Weapons.

So, my question is this:

I'm going to proxy some Flamers in my next game, just to try them out for a change. So here's the scenario thats confusing me. Imagine that I deepstrike 3 Flamers perfectly beside 20 Termagaunts, and then proceed to aim all three templates over the various Termagaunts.

The Rule for multiple templates says, 'If a unit is firing more than one template, resolve each shot one at a time, determining and recording how many hits are scored by each template'.

So, does this mean that, in trying to get the most hits I can, by covering the most models I can with the template, I could actually hit the same individual models with some of the templates, and still have it count towards the total number of hits applied to the squad.

So, poor little Tommy Termagaunt could be covered 3 different times, each time by a different template, but actually cause three wounds to his friends? If that makes sense.

Thanks guys.
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