GK Astra aim - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
40k Rules Discussion Post any Warhammer 40k rules queries and discussions here.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-12-11, 07:38 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
exsulis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 226
Reputation: 2
GK Astra aim

So this was posted on BoLS:

So a downright sinister rules conundrum came to us on the trip back to Adepticon. As with any RAW/RAI argument we can't figure out within 5 minutes, we figured you all should help make the call.



Today's Conundrum: the Astral Aim Psychic power possessed by Grey Knight Purgation squads. First the relevent rules snippet:

"...If the Psychic test is passed, the unit (and any accompanying character) can shoot at any enemy unit within range, even if they do not have line of sight to it, or it is outside the distance they can see in a night fight."


The Conundrum: Can a Purgation squad embarked in a vehicle which passes its Astral Aim test blaze away at targets as listed in the rule for the power, or not? In general, how does Astral Aim interact with vehicles and fireports, if it does at all?

The Case For: Codex overrides core rulebook, and the psychic power clearly states "can shoot at any enemy unit within range" upon a psychic testing being passed. Other rules restrictions on firing are ignored. The second part of the listed sentence simply lists 2 common examples of restrictions that are ignored, not all the restrictions that are ignored (which the first half of the sentence covers).

The Case Against: The psychic power doesn't specifically override the firing restrictions listed in the firing port rules in the vehicle section of the core rules. If they wanted that ability, they would have listed it specifically.


I for one find this to be silly. As they posted above Astra aim does not remove anything but the LoS restrictions. Being able to fire is an entire rule unto itself. Lets say the unit moved, and wanted to fire it's psycannon in heavy mode, or a psilencer would "Astral Aim" allow it? I'm going to say no as the ability is still limited by having moved. Same goes for being limited by a firing port as there are only so many points that they can shoot out.

So what is everyone else's take on this?

** LOUD JARRING CHORDS **

"NOBODY expects the Deathwing Assaulting Fortress of Redemption! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Lion.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again."

"Now, Interrogator-Chaplain Biggles...Fetch the CUSHIONS!"
exsulis is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-12-11, 07:51 PM
Senior Moderator
 
DeathKlokk's Avatar
DeathKlokk's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 5,719
Reputation: 20
Default

I agree with you. It doesn't do anything but allow them to fire on a target out of LOS. It still abides by the range and other shooting rules. Otherwise the unit could do it after running or any other circumstance where shooting is disallowed, like from close combat.

Strange, but not a Stranger.
DeathKlokk is offline  
post #3 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-12-11, 07:57 PM
Senior Member
 
hhickman's Avatar
hhickman's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 105
Reputation: 1
Default

I think they would be able to do it. It says "can shoot at any enemy unit within range, even if they do not have Line of Sight". Thats not restricting it to only ignoring line of sight its just specifically mentioning line of sight. The target is in range, the squad can fire at any target in range. Just my thoughts though.

hhickman is offline  
 
post #4 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-12-11, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
exsulis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 226
Reputation: 2
Default

I'm looking at it from Astral Aim removing some limitations of shooting does not bypass the basic prerequisites to be able to shoot. Which is where firing points, or having run preclude the shooting from happening.

If we go with can shoot, can we then go onto say that they can shoot into combat, or while they are in combat as well. Once we start precluding rules that aren't specifically mentioned we might as well go all the way.

** LOUD JARRING CHORDS **

"NOBODY expects the Deathwing Assaulting Fortress of Redemption! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Lion.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again."

"Now, Interrogator-Chaplain Biggles...Fetch the CUSHIONS!"

Last edited by exsulis; 04-12-11 at 08:08 PM.
exsulis is offline  
post #5 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-12-11, 08:17 PM
Pally-HO!!!!
 
Captain Galus's Avatar
Captain Galus's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The 909
Posts: 1,417
Reputation: 1
Default

Yeah this isn't the big conundrum that the OP on BOLS is making it out to be.


Quote:
Originally Posted by exsulis View Post
I'm looking at it from Astral Aim removing some limitations of shooting does not bypass the basic prerequisites to be able to shoot.
This ^^

Also, you'd have to be one cheesy motherfucker to try and pull this in a game. Keep in mind the GKs would be firing through their transport's fucking armor.

Captain Galus is offline  
post #6 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-12-11, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
exsulis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: CA
Posts: 226
Reputation: 2
Default

I know but the implications are even crazier if you go with it. IE shooting your own troops, shooting into combat, shooting while in combat.

** LOUD JARRING CHORDS **

"NOBODY expects the Deathwing Assaulting Fortress of Redemption! Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency.... Our *three* weapons are fear, surprise, and ruthless efficiency...and an almost fanatical devotion to the Lion.... Our *four*...no... *Amongst* our weapons.... Amongst our weaponry...are such elements as fear, surprise.... I'll come in again."

"Now, Interrogator-Chaplain Biggles...Fetch the CUSHIONS!"
exsulis is offline  
post #7 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-13-11, 12:13 AM
Vaz
Senior Member
 
Vaz's Avatar
Vaz's Flag is: United Kingdom
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Manchester, UK.
Posts: 12,830
Reputation: 79
Default

"downright sinister"

Bitch better stop reading Harry Potter. Nightmares are scary, yo.



100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindi Baji View Post
It's not a black and white question really, there are different shades of anal probing,
a rectum spectrum, if you will
Vaz is offline  
post #8 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-13-11, 07:10 AM
Senior Member
 
Bogg's Avatar
Bogg's Flag is: Norway
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 615
Reputation: 1
Default

the transport is a seperate unit , and should be treated as such, firepoints are limited, so no more than than the allowed number can shoot. This rule only affects los ,and nightfight, .. meaning much like the tau smart-missiles. a good weapon and a nifty skill .


Orks - Salamanders - IG -Tau - Necron - Csm - Nids - Dark Eldar
Bogg is offline  
post #9 of 9 (permalink) Old 04-13-11, 09:13 AM
Senior Member
 
Aramoro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 7,314
Reputation: 5
Default

As far as I can see Astral Aim only overrides the line of sight restrictions, there's no Codex overriding BRB case here because Astral Aim does not allow a unit which is not allowed to fire, to fire.

Aramoro

"Violence isn't the answer, I just like getting it wrong on purpose"

Sally Forth! - My Gaming Blog
Aramoro is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > 40k Rules Discussion

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome