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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-31-11, 05:19 PM
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Nothing in the CSM codex has the Daemon Special Rule, so - assuming the GK Codex/FAQ does not have a list of units that are covered - Summoned Daemons, &c. are not Daemons for GK purposes.

Whilst Daemonkin is a Special Rule with the word Daemon in its name it is not the same rule, so are not covered either.

As I like fluff and am do not want to win that badly, I suggest allowing the GK rules to affect CSM Daemons (manifest as themselves) but not Possessed (have a physical anchor) as a compromise.

However, RAW only units with the "Daemon" rule are affected.
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-31-11, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jaws900 View Post
slap anyone round the head if they argue if a Greater DAEMON, Lesser DAEMON or a DAEMON prince form the CSM codex is not a daemon. They don't say it because it's blody obvious as they have that in there name. The question now is that by that loic Daemonhosts count as daemons.
It's a bit of a minefield as soon as you use the HURRRR it's obvious route.

Is a Vehicle with Daemonic Possession a Daemon?
Are Possessed Daemons?
Are Daemonhosts Daemons?
The Avatar IS a Daemon, but he's not one of THOSE daemons surely? I mean it's obvious.

I would play it GK work on things with the Daemon special rule.

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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-31-11, 05:41 PM
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slap anyone round the head if they argue if a Greater DAEMON, Lesser DAEMON or a DAEMON prince form the CSM codex is not a daemon. They don't say it because it's blody obvious as they have that in there name. The question now is that by that loic Daemonhosts count as daemons.
Hitting someone over the head for a legitimate rules question is hardly constructive. Just compromise in friendly games, and the GK player will have to suck it in competitive situations. That's how it's done.

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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 03-31-11, 07:37 PM
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Honestly, I can't see any CSM player who is bringing any daemons compromising with a GK player. GK are already stack with advantages as it is.

However, since CSM daemons don't have gifts, there are fewer inconveniences for them fighting GKs to begin with.

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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-01-11, 01:19 AM
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It's a bit of a minefield as soon as you use the HURRRR it's obvious route.

Is a Vehicle with Daemonic Possession a Daemon?
Are Possessed Daemons?
Are Daemonhosts Daemons?
The Avatar IS a Daemon, but he's not one of THOSE daemons surely? I mean it's obvious.

I would play it GK work on things with the Daemon special rule.
Um... I'm really, really not picking a fight, but we fixed the Living Metal and Impaler Cannon rules by using logic and what is obvious. Why aren't we doing that with this rule?

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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-01-11, 09:20 AM
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Um... I'm really, really not picking a fight, but we fixed the Living Metal and Impaler Cannon rules by using logic and what is obvious. Why aren't we doing that with this rule?
We did not fix those rules, you simply did not and apparently do not know how they work. Feel free to start a new thread about them though and you will be told the same thing. On any forum, I recommended warseer if you disagree with our reasoning.

Again i'm not trying to start an argument, but I don't think you'll get many different answers. (Except on Warseer)

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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-01-11, 01:49 PM
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Awww CRAP! You mean they went through the trouble of making a new GK codex without solving one of their fundamental rules issues?


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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-01-11, 02:31 PM
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As the problem is only with units from the CSM codex(as far as I know), I feel the best solution would be for GW to decide whether they are rule-daemonic or only fluff-daemonic and then either:
(i) place an explicit statement in the CSM FAQ saying they are not "Daemons", or;
(ii) place an errata in the CSM FAQ for certain units replacing some special rules with the "Daemon" SR(this might even make them more competitive).

However, I suspect that they are more likely to either:
(i) leave the issue hanging, or;
(ii) add a list of some units that are covered to the GK FAQ without defining the general case.
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-01-11, 03:04 PM
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(ii) add a list of some units that are covered to the GK FAQ without defining the general case.
This is what they did with Epidemus, simply specified everything he worked with.

It's still a problem with Preferred Enemy, Does Preferred Enemy (Orks) cover grethchin?

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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 04-01-11, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
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This is what they did with Epidemus, simply specified everything he worked with.
If I remember they did it with old GK as well.

Not perfect then; not perfect now.

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It's still a problem with Preferred Enemy, Does Preferred Enemy (Orks) cover grethchin?
If you introduce some fluff it gets even harder: if PE (Tau) covers Kroot, does it cover them if they are mercenaries in another army without any Tau presence?

Does PE (Eldar) cover Dark Eldar as fluffwise humans think they are one race?

Possibly the only thing that will solve the issue (although not all issues) is to include a race statistic for each unit in the next FAQs, which is used for any rule affecting all X.
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