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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-01-08, 03:09 AM Thread Starter
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Default Casualty removal from blasts/templates

I was wondering how casualty removal works for blasts and templates as regards to maximum range. A normal weapon can only kill models that are within its maximum range so if only 2 members of a squad are within that range, no matter how many wounds it gets it can only kill those 2 models. How does this work for blasts? Especially blasts that scatter?

Say a demolisher cannon shoots a squad with 1 member exactly 24" away (max range of the weapon) and the rest of the target squad is out of range. The shot scatters further into the majority of the squad and ends up taking out 7 guys. Can it kill the models that are further than 24" away from the cannon?

Possible answers:
-No, it can only kill things up to 24" away (max range).
-Yes, but the models killed must be within 24" + max scatter distance (6") + radius of the blast template used (2.5") = 32.5". This is the furthest possible away that the gun can kill someone unless you also want to add in the size of the bases of the models to account for partials. This method seems a little ridiculous and would be different for blasts that don't scatter (instead it would be max range + template radius).
-Yes, models can be removed from anywhere in the unit, without regard to range. If you shoot a member of a 300-ork Green Tide from apocalypse that is stretched across 6 feet of board then orks that are 4 feet from the max range of the cannon can be removed as casualties.

I'm fine with the idea of blasts removing models that aren't under the template, but how far does this go? On page 30 of the rulebook it says that casualties can come from anywhere in the unit but on page 22 it says that models out of range can't be hit by the shooting. Elsewhere it says that scattering can take a blast out of line of sight and it's still a valid shot.

Thoughts?
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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-01-08, 03:30 AM
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The 40k rulebook errata says that templates can scatter out of LOS and range.
Also the defending player can remove any casualties inflicted from the unit as a whole.

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-01-08, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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Well, that's one vote for removing models halfway across the board as long as they're from the same unit, any others? (I lean this way as well),
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-01-08, 01:41 PM
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The way I play blasts is that the hole in the template is centred on the point of impact. When it explodes, the propellant is from the shell, not the weapon. Also, I take models from the range of the blast. Doesn't make sense if you have a 20 long line of grots, and you kill 3 from left side, that you take models from the far side.

Adds realism, and a new challenge - whether the opponent places his combat troops close together to deal with one extremely hard challenge, or risk me placing a blast template on top of them.

The range of the weapon itself is 24". This means you can target any enemy inside the arc of fire, in LOS, and within 24". You place the template in the designated location. From there, you roll the scatter. The range now is the range in the template. After all, you only roll to hit the models under the template. This only makes sense to then remove those models hit.

In answer to your question, if the blast takes out 7 models, then you should remove the models under this. The blast template is seperate from the weapon, considering if it scatters out of LOS and range of the weapon,it is still legal.



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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-01-08, 02:17 PM
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In answer to your question, if the blast takes out 7 models, then you should remove the models under this
No, you can remove the models from anywhere on the unit. Although Vaz's suggestion is more realistic it is also not accurate based on the rules. If you want to agree to play it that way with your opponent that is fine.

The issue with Vaz's way of play is when it comes to blast weapons that don't scatter. In 40k shooting is at a unit and not at a single model. There is no way to pick out a specific character or model in a unit unless you do enough wounds on everyone in the unit. However, with blast weapons since they are placed an opponent can easily pick out certain models in a unit. To avoid this the rules state that models can be removed from anywhere in the unit.

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-01-08, 02:19 PM
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We have found a way past that. LOS is drawn from the shooting model's base. The nearest target in that unit is then hit.

It's the standard rules at my local club, along with always having a GM etc.



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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-01-08, 04:45 PM
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might be swinging in the dark, with no 40k rule book to hand, but i thought the player whos unit is being shot at can reposition the template anywhere over his unit and remove casualties from underneath it (after saves)

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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-01-08, 07:03 PM
 
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totally stupid, i think models under the blast should be removed

edited.

Last edited by cccp; 04-01-08 at 09:20 PM.
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-01-08, 09:18 PM Thread Starter
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Opinions and houserules aside, how does the rulebook say to do it RAW?
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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 04-01-08, 09:32 PM
 
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you can choose anyone in the unit.

. i personally take down the units under the template bc i figure thats where the explosion happened.
Try to tell that to someone that has an emp champion, chaplain and 3 powerfist under a S9 ap2 template and the'll quote you rules until kingdom come.
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