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post #1 of 5 (permalink) Old 11-23-10, 02:59 AM Thread Starter
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Default Pre-game actions?

So I found a shop that isn't an hour away to play at, and I got my first game in over 2 years in the other day. However I ran into an un-expected situation mid way through the game. I suppose I should start at the begining.

We were doing a 2 on 1 Apoc battle at 3,000 points, I was the one and I was running my CSMs. I had to proxy a couple things cause I grabbed a wrong case. No big deal, right? Just make sure to tell your opponent what you're proxying and you should be fine. I do have to admit it was funny as anything to proxy my Biker champion with a model that has a heavy flamer. Anyway, I went through all the models that didn't have the "standard bits" and made sure my opponents new that this Aspiring champion with the demon claw had a power weapon, the raptor chapion with the Whip-lash chain weapons counted has having Lightning claws, the Tech-marine looking model was an Obliterator... all the way down the line. Nothing much seemed to come of it until the begining of their turn 3.

My Biker squad came in from reserves and I used my Strategic asset to come in on a board edge that was close to the rear armor of a troublesome Baneblade, intending to Melta-gun/bomb the snot out of the blasted thing over the next 2 turns. Flanking the BaneBlade was a Land Raider Crusader. With the exception of the Assault Cannons, I didn't have much to fear to my bikers in reataliation since they're running an Icon of Nurgle making them Toughness 6 and I was out of range of the Multi-melta on it. So I didn't really worry about right away, my priority was to take out the BaneBlade. so I managed to land 3 good shots with the pair of Melta guns and the Combi-melta and managed to take down a structure point and render it unable to move next turn. I then charged in but failed to do any measurable damage (damn melta bomb was a dud lousy good for nothing 5 points...). So the turn ended. I knew the Space Marine player would retaliat against my offending Bike squad cause... lets face it. 10 Toughness 6, relentless marines with twin-linked bolters and a pair of Melta guns strutting around your lines isn't something you want to ignore.

So it went down like this: He turns his land Raider crusader to face my bike squad and then says "Okay 2 lascannon shots at your bikers." Turns out he had been running the crusader as a Standard Land Raider the entire time, but had neglected to tell me so. Had I known I'd be facing down a pair of T.linked Lascannons, I would have altered my plans.

So here's where my question: before you actually start putting models on the board, how extensively do you go over your army with your opponent? Is it driven more as a point of courtesy or a point of good sports man ship? Do you have a lot of conversions in your army that may look confusing as to what they may represent in game? If so, how conscious are you of telling your opponent about them before you start the game?


foot note: Tzeentch answered my prayers when the Space Marine player went to Dis-embark his 10 man terminator Squad from the Land Raider and I informed him that a Land Raider can't carry 10 terminators, so we agreed that he lost 5 of them.

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post #2 of 5 (permalink) Old 11-23-10, 03:30 AM
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Competitive and casual games are two totally different situations, IMO.

For a tournament or competitive game, absolutely ask the judge what the army policies are, and follow them strictly before every game. Politely ask your opponent to comply as well if they don't volunteer the info. That's good sportsmanship.

For a casual game, I'd be more likely to grin and bear it. Especially if you're trying to get started in a new group. Maybe it was intentional, maybe not. It would have been good etiquette for them to declare what they were proxying after you went over all your stuff, but at the same time you could have asked. Next time I'd be sure to ask what's being proxied on both sides before the game starts. If they try to pull a fast one during the game, then you have a legitimate beef.

I'm sure experiences and opinions vary greatly here, but this is just what I would do.
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post #3 of 5 (permalink) Old 11-23-10, 04:17 AM
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It is always a good idea to ask to review your opponent's armylist (& provide yours for review) before beginning a battle if you're unsure as to what your opponent runs. For example, when I play a pick up game against an opponent I don't face regularly I generally spend a bunch of time explaining what I've got & then ask the same questions. Of course, I generally play the same lists once I've found one I like & then only explain the small changes to my regular opponents.

It's not necessarily that you don't trust your opponent, but knowing what your opponent has & where it is on the table is fundamental to developing any real strategy. For example you wouldn't necessarily charge a horde of hormagaunts at a chimera if you knew it was packing vets with flamethrowers unless you had no choice...

I find myself asking all sorts of questions each time my opponents throw down units. You'd be suprised how many times honest people forget that they've paid to add a hunterkiller or something. I find that many times it is more beneficial to my opponent than it is to myself to help him remember any special rules or abilities.

As you've seen asking your opponent when he deploys his units (transports in particular) can prevent any toss-ups like having 10 terminators pile out of a land raider...
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post #4 of 5 (permalink) Old 11-23-10, 04:19 AM
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One thing I always prefer is that proxies are denoted after Deployment. It helps me very little for you to hold a model up to my face and say "this guy with the red hat has a meltagun" when I don't know where he ends up on the table. Pointing it out when it's actually on-table helps me keep track of it much better.

As far as any proxies I might have (which I try and avoid unless I'm building an army at the time) I tell them however often I have to to keep things fair.

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post #5 of 5 (permalink) Old 11-23-10, 11:35 AM
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As 40K is open list I am happy go over my list in as much detail as my opponent wants.

Whether they have looked at my list or not (most people I know do not bother unless actually I thrust it at them) I always declare any proxy/counts as as I place the unit on the table; as a CSM converter I sometimes have a reasonable number.

Unless I am proxying/counting as to try a new tactic I also try to back the verbal notice up with clear visual clues: all converted melta-gunners have the same flamer arm conversion and no-one else does; special weapon troops have a different weapon rather than just a different coloured hat.

I am a lot harder on myself than my opponents; if it is in their list then I will not quibble if I did not pay attention at the start and then got a surprise; if nothing else it replicates fog of war.
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