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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-02-10, 02:20 PM
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i'm afraid the is no "offical" ruleing but the majoraty of plays will say just 1 modal has to be in rang efor the entire unit to get it. I don't fight orks that much but when i did in an apocaypse game he put is Mech in his Stompa and that 4+ cover save was a right pain....until my lone Marine with metlagun poped it like a zit and then the Mech thoguht him self into his own Vortex grenade

The main thing is really confirm it with your oppoent or Ref first so you don't get this problem later.

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-02-10, 02:26 PM
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KFF does not protect models it protect units. As states in the BRB when measuring to a unit, the unit is in range if any of the models in the unit are in range. Pg 3 of the rule book.

No real clarification needed as it's one of the most basic rules of the game.

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-02-10, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laegim View Post
You all seem pretty confident in this answer, but I thought this remained one of those contentious rules that hasn't been clarified. I've heard lots of responses to how the KFF works: One model in range grants cover to the unit, majority models in range grants cover to the unit (like it was just a mobile hedge row) or even only specific models in range (not the whole unit) get the cover (Which seems to be the least likely answer to me as it directly goes against 5th edition rules for cover AND the friggin wording for the power (I went on a rant about this one in the general section previously... friggin GW employees)).

Basically what I'm asking is, is there a ruling on this or are we all just saying what we believe is right?
A model within 6" is a model within 6".
A model in a unit is part of the unit.
If part of the unit is within 6", then its within 6".
Fairly simple stuff.

Put it this way.... If you cant say that a unit is at least 6" away from the model, then it has to be within 6" doesnt it?


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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-02-10, 02:32 PM
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The rule is pretty clear however, if a unit is within 6", it gets a cover save. If it said "model", then more than half the unit would have to be affected, just like normal cover saves. However, it says unit, and (just like a number of other "unit" effects"), affects the whole unit if can reach any part of it.

So, if a single model is in range, the "unit" is in range, and if the unit is in range, the unit gets a cover save. You don't have to have the majority of the unit, just any part of it. This also goes for things like IG orders, SM powers like Nullzone, Banner effects for various different armies... the list goes on.

[Edit: and I've already been ninja'd twice! teaches me for not reloading first ]

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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-02-10, 02:42 PM
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whoa whoa, I wasn't trying to start an argument over that, I'm on your side here (I'm an ork player afterall). Believe me, I was so peeved about the guy telling me it was models within 6 inches (which if CLEARLY not right since that literally ignores the wording of the power) I had to come on here and rant about it to vent.

My group of friends have decided to treat the KFF as a mobile cover. That isn't really as good as my interpretation, but it does mean they let units standing BEHIND the KFF get cover as well, which leads to some interesting circumstances. My personal belief is that if a model is within 6 inches, the unit that model belongs to gets the KFF benefit. However, I've gotta go with what the majority of the people I play with say or else we'll just spend the whole time arguing and that doesn't really make the game very enjoyable
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-02-10, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laegim View Post
whoa whoa, I wasn't trying to start an argument over that, I'm on your side here (I'm an ork player afterall). Believe me, I was so peeved about the guy telling me it was models within 6 inches (which if CLEARLY not right since that literally ignores the wording of the power) I had to come on here and rant about it to vent.

My group of friends have decided to treat the KFF as a mobile cover. That isn't really as good as my interpretation, but it does mean they let units standing BEHIND the KFF get cover as well, which leads to some interesting circumstances. My personal belief is that if a model is within 6 inches, the unit that model belongs to gets the KFF benefit. However, I've gotta go with what the majority of the people I play with say or else we'll just spend the whole time arguing and that doesn't really make the game very enjoyable
That's all fair enough, many players/groups house rule things to suit

If you ever wanted to convince them of how it's supposed to work, you can always just use the points we've made (and remind them of the effects in their own armies that use the "units within..." form of rule). Otherwise, keep playing it the way that you and your group find fun, because that's what it's all about. Just know that if you ever go to tournaments, or play against other groups, they'll probably use it the other way around.

Either way, good luck to you

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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-03-10, 12:01 AM
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Sounds like they just want to nerf your army.


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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-03-10, 12:39 AM
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This cover save business is why I love my dark reapers exarch crack shooting tempest launcher (whats that? I have no line of sight and the unit is in cover? I have barrage weapon ignoring cover so I simply do not care!)

Also gave one to a firepike fire dragon exarch. No turbo-boosting vehicle gets away from me!
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 09-03-10, 04:34 AM
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Everyone I've ever asked seems to go by what the codex literaly says: "all units within 6" of the Mek". Which imo means if any model in the unit is within 6" then the unit as a whole is considered within 6". I think if the writers meant otherwise they would have said something like "if over half the unit is within 6"" or something like that.

*edit* I should have read the other post first. Sorry for the repeat.

Last edited by NeroRat; 09-03-10 at 04:38 AM.
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