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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-19-10, 04:02 AM
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The only statement we have to use in the rules for determining whether or not any members of the unit are subject to the effect is the statement on page "If the players need to measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), this range is measured to or from the vehicle's hull." and the statement on page 66 that ranges and line of sight for models firing out of fire points are done from the access point.
I fail to see how that statement doesn't cover your scenario. You measure to the hull, not the part of the hull that the model is likely to be occupying, just the hull.

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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-19-10, 07:13 AM
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My rant may have been slightly off topic, but the conclusion that the psychic hood is measured against the hull when interacting with another embarked psyker is still incorrect.

The rules for psychic shooting attacks follow the shooting rules, and the shooting rules say to measure distances from the fire point instead of the hull, so it would be incorrect to measure to the hull for the firing psyker. Remember the "(except for its shooting)" part of the rule on page 66.

The psychic hood is, after all, specified as interacting with "an enemy model within 24" of the Librarian" and not a psyker in a unit within 24" of the Librarian.

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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-19-10, 09:02 AM
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I'm still confused.
So if the rule refers to something as a model, what the model represents is no longer considered part of the unit, and thus is not elgible to be included in the measure to the hull or measure to the fireport it used rules?

If so, then if we remove a model from play, the unit it left doesn't have to take a morale check for 25% and stuff like that then? If models are not units, then they don't count for KP if they are removed from play by things like WBB, Bolt of Change, and the Orc psychic power that turns a model into a squig?

I just want to make sure I understand this. If it refers to a model, then what its refering to is automaticlly unjoined from its unit? When does it have to regain coherency? (Or does it?)
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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-19-10, 09:17 AM
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RAW Psychic hood cannot nullify powers from guys inside tanks. The model is not on the table and it certainly wasn't the tank that passed the Psychic check. The distinction between models and units is used fairly frequently throughout the rules and it always works the same way.

Models means that actual model e.g. Your taking dangerous terrain tests, each model takes a test so if your Sargent fails his he dies and you cannot assign that wound to the squad, tank shock, explosion radius, template weapons etc all count models (although these wounds are assigned).

Casting powers from inside the tank has rules, you measure from the hull, or a fire port for shooting attacks.

Obviously RAI you measure to the hull of the tank and you can use it. I don't think anyone would seriously argue you cannot use hoods on guys in tanks.

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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-19-10, 11:27 AM
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For simplicity's sake, you measure the hood to the hull of the vehicle he's in, because the model is not actually on the board it's just easiest to basically say "For the purposes of anything referencing this particular model, he IS the vehicle."
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-19-10, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHarrington View Post
I'm still confused.
So if the rule refers to something as a model, what the model represents is no longer considered part of the unit, and thus is not elgible to be included in the measure to the hull or measure to the fireport it used rules?
Errrrr... what?

Quote:
If so, then if we remove a model from play, the unit it left doesn't have to take a morale check for 25% and stuff like that then? If models are not units, then they don't count for KP if they are removed from play by things like WBB, Bolt of Change, and the Orc psychic power that turns a model into a squig?
No, removed is a casualty. Sometimes a model is removed regardless of wounds, so they don't get some special saves most of the time.

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I just want to make sure I understand this. If it refers to a model, then what its refering to is automaticlly unjoined from its unit? When does it have to regain coherency? (Or does it?)
No. Not sure how you're getting this. A unit is a group of models. If a unit is in a vehicle, so are it's models. They are boderline synonymous.

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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-19-10, 03:54 PM
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DK, the questions were meant to bring to light certain flaws in the argument that was favoring the "models aren't on the board so can't be effected" theme.

I was trying to show, by asking pointed questions, that if we begin to split hairs over the use of the term model being exclusive from the character in the unit, we will shatter many many rules.

I, personally, am of the opinion that anything that uses the term model is only doing so for easy reference to exact targetting. It is not doing so to provide a way for people to dodge effects by having their 'model' off the board.

I appreciate the response, though. Next time I will try to be a little more transparent in my efforts.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-19-10, 03:58 PM
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Plus lets not forget that the dreaded "Eldrad in a Rolls Royce, I mean Falcon" effect is powerfull enough without stripping anti-psychic defenses, particularly range-based ones.

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I'm probably going to follow my usual Eldar tactic of driving around the table "circling and screaming 'I don't give a fuck' with my windows down and system up" and avoiding anything that looks scary.
Her(?) name may be slightly inapropriate, but she just needs love! And I just need to eat your face!
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 03-20-10, 03:08 AM
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LOL, sorry SHar. My sarcasm detector is on the fritz.

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