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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-18-09, 06:35 PM
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Just thinking - it actually states (for example), Chapter Banner, that you remove the model from the table? And that models within 12" of the Chapter Banner Bearer model recieve +1 attack. Considering that the model is not actually on the table at all, then surely that doesn't grant the bonuses?



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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-18-09, 06:46 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
Just thinking - it actually states (for example), Chapter Banner, that you remove the model from the table? And that models within 12" of the Chapter Banner Bearer model recieve +1 attack. Considering that the model is not actually on the table at all, then surely that doesn't grant the bonuses?
Not sure which chapter banner you're looking at. The vanilla marine codex says units within 12" of the bearer get to reroll failed morale and pinning tests and the unit that the bearer is a member of get +1 attack each.

Anyway, it never specifies model, so I'd think that the 12" for morale rerolls would extend from the transports, as usual.
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-18-09, 07:41 PM
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Mixed up between the two effects. Point still stands, though.

However, considering it never specifies model, I guess the fact should the bearer be killed, you still recieve benefit?



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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-18-09, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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However, considering it never specifies model, I guess the fact should the bearer be killed, you still recieve benefit?
Well, for the +1 attack for his unit and the counting as scoring as extra wound in CC it specifies that the bearer must be alive. For the reroll morale within 12" it just says they have to be within 12" of the banner bearer, though presumably that means that it works when the bearer is inside the transport but not when he no longer exists.

Really I think that they mean that models inside transports still exist in 5th ed, unlike 4th edition where when a model embarked on a transport they ceased to be, as if they were shunted off to another dimension instead of the 'table' dimension that the game was happening on until their transport was destroyed or they disembarked.

The new version makes much more sense, which is rare for GW rules.
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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-18-09, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Culler View Post
Really I think that they mean that models inside transports still exist in 5th ed, unlike 4th edition where when a model embarked on a transport they ceased to be, as if they were shunted off to another dimension instead of the 'table' dimension that the game was happening on until their transport was destroyed or they disembarked.

The new version makes much more sense, which is rare for GW rules.
Exactly, the model is just counted as being inside the transport, so any effects that say "within x" of the model" or "within x" of the bearer" all just measure from the hull of the transport. I can't think of any ability of this sort that being transported might effect, and even ones that require line of sight still work if you have a fire point. It's a pretty solid, and as Culler said, makes much more sense.

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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-19-09, 04:45 AM
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Actually, abilities which require line of sight would be problematic because firing points only give permission to models firing (or using a psychic power) using the fire point.

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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-19-09, 05:21 AM
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Actually, abilities which require line of sight would be problematic because firing points only give permission to models firing (or using a psychic power) using the fire point.
Haha, I don't actually know of any non-psychic powers that require LOS, so I'm thinking this won't come up very often at all.

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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-19-09, 06:02 AM
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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-20-09, 01:12 AM
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Lord of Tempests as well
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 12-20-09, 05:16 AM
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Lord of Tempests as well
Touché.

Why oh why does it not surprise me that both of them are from the Space Wolves codex?

Anyone know when the SW FAQ is coming out? It should be larger than the codex, if they actually try to fix all the rules conundrums in the book....

Until then, a common sense solution of using firepoints is probably the best way to go around things, or else they just can't use the powers inside the transport I guess.

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