Swooping Hawk Headaches - Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums
40k Rules Discussion Post any Warhammer 40k rules queries and discussions here.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-12-07, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 26
Default Swooping Hawk Headaches

so i just bought some swoopong hawks, and reviewing the rules presented me with some very glaring questions.

first off, it says in the codex that
Quote:
"any time a swooping hawk uses its deep strike ability it may place a single large blast marker centered on a model anywhere on the table and roll a scatter dice"
does this mean that every swooping hawk gets to drop his own pack or is just the whole squad dropping one? also, can an autarch with hawk wings use this?

next, about the famous sky leap, it says in the codex that
Quote:
the squad may elect to use sky leap in its movement phase.
does this mean that they can drop in and then pop back out before ever really being on the table? and it never says they cant do this if they have already moved, and technically doesnt seem to count as actually moving.

could someone give their knowledge on this? if the two things i say are true theyd be a major bitch, and if they arent they still are, just not so much.
DireAvenger is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-12-07, 09:58 PM
Senior Member
 
jigplums's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,602
Reputation: 5
Default

well the first one i'd say is only one template for the squad but RAW might indicate otherwise, lol that could be funny at a GT.

As for the second i think that it is generally though grudgingly accepted by most that is the way skyleap works

Check out my gamer Blog
http://gamergeekery.blogspot.co.uk/2...rs-in-40k.html

Jezlad "I actually commented that Jigplums list was the least scary list I faced. Then took a pasting"
http://www.coolminiornot.com/artist/jigplums
http://www.coolminiornot.com/160095
jigplums is offline  
post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-12-07, 10:36 PM Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 26
Default

thats good, im glad to hear about the second, because my whole reason for them is based around sky leap.

as for the first question it is odd that they would put in unti instead of aquad, as i think it specified that there was only one template in 3rd. besaides, good luck trying to have an opponent let you drop six str 4 ap 5 large blasts on them!
DireAvenger is offline  
 
post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-13-07, 12:31 AM
Executive Nitpicker
 
Galahad's Avatar
Galahad's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 8,276
Reputation: 15
Default

The wording certainly does seem to indicate that itl;s every swooping hawk rather than each squad. The autarch wouldn't count because he;s not a swooping hawk and isn;t equipped with grenade packs.

Though I could see someone arging that all of the templates must target the same squad (though not nessecarily the same model)

-=============]xxxxo Galahad oxxxx[=============-
Check out the Heresy Combat Calculator -- MathHammer Made Easy!



Codex: Angels Errant. Read it, please.
Heresy Forum Rules -- Read them, damnit!
Reporting: When/How/Why -- Read that too!
"...remember the Golden Rule: Chill out, they're only plastic spacemen!" -Brother Jazzman
"Galahad is 100% correct in his explanation. Anyone who says otherwise to [him] is vastly mistaken." -The Wraithlord
"You know what? Fuck DC comics." -Robert Downey Junior



Galahad is offline  
post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-13-07, 04:58 AM
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 801
Default

The main problem with your cunning plan is that people have already put up with Hawks a hell of a lot further than they normally would with the in-and-out movement phase, so pushing this extra bit would see you opponentless if you pursued it too agressively. It would simply be more bullshit than anyone could reasonably be expected to take from one squad, and probably see official changes if you puled it in a tournament. It is extremist powergaming, and I hope you know what you're getting yourself into if you want to follow it up.
uberschveinen is offline  
post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-13-07, 06:29 AM
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 677
Default

First, let me say to Uber, you missed a huge problem I figured you would be the only person to point out, and aggressively.

Second, this whole thing, a cunning idea indeed, can't happen. The problem Dire, is that on your first entry missed a key word. The codex RAW says "Anytime a Swooping Hawk unit uses it's deep strike ability, it may use the grenade packs to drop a large template."
Meaning the whole unit, not singles models.

Third, the Skyleap issue. Technically, from the codex, you could move AND Skyleap. That really isn't overpowered, as you can do nothing once leaving the table, removing you from shooting and assault phases. The problem is that they become Reserves and follow Reserve rules when attempting to return on your next movement phase. So it would seem everytime you attempt to get this free jump in and Grenade Pack someone, you would be forced to roll for Reserves each turn you wanted them to deep strike back in.

It might seem overpowered that they can jump in and out, and at turn 4, return on a 2+ to do it again, but there is a big failing. You've just wasted shooting and assault phases just to reposition for a possible free template, and you have a chance of not being able to return at all. Missing out on all those lasblasters and possible sunrifle shots would prevent me from using this ability much. Pretty much only if I was cornered.

~As an edit, I thought of a powerful concept. Use the Skyleap to force big hand to hand units into wide-open close combats, or force units out that must charge closest enemies. Then when in the open, leave them hanging for the shooting gallery and Skyleap out. A beserker force would be injured greatly.~

-Khaine-
Wrath of Khaine is offline  
post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-13-07, 10:16 AM
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 801
Default

Ugh. Well, if ever I was going to miss a minute point of grammar that utterly obliterates an interpretation of the rules that I think is silly, it was now. A few days of no real sleep on planes, plus a cold that's giving me some freaky headspins, and right now I'm just glad I'm not on the floor yet. I'll admit, it was cool when it felt like I was accelerating dramatically, but then the floor started moving and it stopped being fun.

As for the strategy, the minimum Hawk squad, or worse a few of those, can cause massive problems for any light infantry army. The main issue people heave with it, though, is that there just isn't anything they can do about it.
uberschveinen is offline  
post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-13-07, 05:03 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 221
Default

Especically when you get an Autarch mixed into things with the +1 reserves roll. That's just downright unfair.
Antioch is offline  
post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-13-07, 07:53 PM
The Hebrew Hammer
 
The Son of Horus's Avatar
The Son of Horus's Flag is: USA
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Indiana, USA
Posts: 6,544
Reputation: 60
Default

I've fought against this sort of thing a couple times now, and honestly... it doesn't bother me. You certainly can't jump back out on the same turn you arrive-- when you deep strike in, that's supposed to be all the unit's movement that it's allowed for the turn. Yes, the multiple grenade pack possibility now hurts a bit more, but I prefer it to the sustained assault Exarch delievery system that the Swooping Hawks used to be. It's quite characterful now, and it's balanced by the fact that Swooping Hawks have piss-poor AP values on their weapons, and lasblasters are S3 to boot.

IN THE US? ASK ME HOW TO GET 10% OFF GAMES WORKSHOP PRODUCTS!

My homebrew Space Marine Chapter: The Astartes Lions Rampant

The Son of Horus is offline  
post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-13-07, 08:01 PM
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 221
Default

The way the entry is worded says otherwise, that you can both deep strike and leave the table on the same turn.

It says nothing about not being able to if already moved or anything of the sort. It just says during the movement phase.
Antioch is offline  
Reply

  Lower Navigation
Go Back   Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums > Warhammer 40K > 40k Rules Discussion

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Wargaming Forum and Wargamer Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome